WSOP final table play

JulesJules Red Chipper Posts: 440 ✭✭✭
edited November 2015 in General Concepts
What do you all think of the final table play? Seeing a lot of negative talk on twitter from some of the pros. Some mentioning that they are playing scared and only looking for pay jumps. Also the JJ lay down by Beckley? Thoughts?

Comments

  • Doug HullDoug Hull RCP Coach Posts: 1,739 -
    Jules wrote:
    What do you all think of the final table play? Seeing a lot of negative talk on twitter from some of the pros. Some mentioning that they are playing scared and only looking for pay jumps. Also the JJ lay down by Beckley? Thoughts?

    Are people playing scared? Wouldn't you?

    Lets look at the pay jumps:

    2-1 $3,200,000
    3-2 $1,000,000
    4-3 $800,000
    5-4 $700,000

    These pay jumps are bigger than first prize in most tournaments that most of us have ever played. Hell, I would wager the buy-in for the Main Event is bigger than the first prize at most tournaments out there (There are a damn lot of $40 daily tournaments...)

    If you look long enough, you will find someone saying mean things about people that are making major accomplishments. These guys are doing great. There are over 6,000 people that tried to get a seat at that table and did not.
    Co-founder Red Chip Poker,
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  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,634 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Doug Hull wrote:
    There are over 6,000 people that tried to get a seat at that table and did not.

    Not to mention the thousands that tried to get a seat at that tournament and did not.

    The warriors are the ones who actually enter the arena.
  • Christian SotoChristian Soto RCP Coach Posts: 2,195 ✭✭✭✭
    Doug Hull wrote:
    Jules wrote:
    What do you all think of the final table play? Seeing a lot of negative talk on twitter from some of the pros. Some mentioning that they are playing scared and only looking for pay jumps. Also the JJ lay down by Beckley? Thoughts?

    Are people playing scared? Wouldn't you?

    Lets look at the pay jumps:

    2-1 $3,200,000
    3-2 $1,000,000
    4-3 $800,000
    5-4 $700,000

    These pay jumps are bigger than first prize in most tournaments that most of us have ever played. Hell, I would wager the buy-in for the Main Event is bigger than the first prize at most tournaments out there (There are a damn lot of $40 daily tournaments...)

    If you look long enough, you will find someone saying mean things about people that are making major accomplishments. These guys are doing great. There are over 6,000 people that tried to get a seat at that table and did not.


    Stop it! Some terrible poker was played!
  • dutch81dutch81 Red Chipper Posts: 212
    I recorded the F.T. and saw most of it last night for the first time.

    When Chan calls the open-shove w/ KQ from the blinds... I get it, it's a good hand vs. the chip leader from the button. The thing is that even if you're ahead of his range, if he has 22, you're behind. If he has any Ax, you're behind. In a way, you're hoping he has KJ or worse to really feel good about it. The pay jumps are pretty big from 9th to 7th too. I know he's short and all but I'd prefer to be the aggressor and be the one shoving a decent hand (KT, A7, 78s, etc.) and have 2 ways to win over calling a shove w/ KQ and having only 1 way to win.

    I mean, you wait a few months to resume the F.T. and so early at the F.T., calling off w/ K high and HAVING to win seems like a risk you don't HAVE to take. I think there was still a player to act behind too in the BB. I just think you can find a tough fold there and find a better spot, even w/ 13 BB's or w/e he had since the blinds go up so slowly in the M.E. I'm sure if he folded, some may say that was a bad fold but this this is a different situation than most others since the prize jumps are so huge and you have so much play per blind level. Also, there was another short stack (the Italian) who could bust just as soon as Chan. Not too sure if some hands were cut out before this hand but this is just my opinion. I'm not saying it was a bad call, I'm just saying you could consider folding and find a better spot. Preferably a spot where you're doing the shoving yourself and can win by inducing folds or hitting if/when called.

    Also, it looked like a lot of the players were hollywooding a ton, especially the old guy Deuville. So bad for poker and the viewers.
  • KemahPhilKemahPhil Red Chipper Posts: 101 ✭✭
    The slowness of some of the players was certainly a problem. It made live viewing painful. The commentators were saying that a "shot clock" of some sort will probably be implemented next year. On one level I hate to see that but it is probably necessary if the final table is going to make it as a television event.

    As for the actual play, I didn't see that much to criticize. Blumenfield made some questionable plays on the final day. The fold of JJ by Beckley was outstanding!! It may have been due to angling for a pay jump or he may have had a read on McKeheen but, either way, it was certainly the right play.

    I thought McKeehen played almost perfectly. Yes he hit a lot of cards but he also picked up a lot of chips when he didn't have cards and he kept the pressure on the shorter stacks throughout.

    Any criticism from "poker pros" is just sour grapes IMHO.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,010 -
    Over-hyped product that does more harm than good IMO.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • YashNYashN Red Chipper Posts: 33
    The thing is: knowing the pay jumps are that big and that players will have a tendency to be overly tight, could the situation have been exploited profitably?

    I think so.

    However, McKeehen ran exceptionally good (he played well too when the cards were not excellent).
  • dutch81dutch81 Red Chipper Posts: 212
    Just saw the rest of the F.T. up until Deuville was the short stack. I have NEVER rooted against someone as much as I am now w/ Deuville. I hope he busts next for the good of my viewing experience. The guy takes 5 seconds before he even looks at his cards, then takes another 10 almost every time. I thought he would speed things up after Joe called him out for it but it was only for his next 2 hands. I cannot stand this guy.

    I am rooting for Tom though, his emotional interview made me want to root for him. A talented, hard working guy that wanted it his way or the highway. What an inspiration. Even Antonio mentioned how emotional he was during the interview. I can't help but root for guys like that. So far Joe has been an absolute beast. Can't wait to see the conclusion of this! I don't like to watch anything live anymore b/c I won't be able to FF through the commercials and watch it all in 1 or 2 sittings.
  • SaintsTigersSaintsTigers Red Chipper Posts: 238 ✭✭
    dutch81 wrote:
    Just saw the rest of the F.T. up until Deuville was the short stack. I have NEVER rooted against someone as much as I am now w/ Deuville. I hope he busts next for the good of my viewing experience. The guy takes 5 seconds before he even looks at his cards, then takes another 10 almost every time. I thought he would speed things up after Joe called him out for it but it was only for his next 2 hands. I cannot stand this guy.

    I mean, he's 72 or something. I assume given his age he's doing that partly to make sure he doesn't make mental mistakes. Plus, he's a retired, successful executive; I'd lay long odds that his methodical, deliberate decision making process helped make him millions of dollars in the business world.
  • dutch81dutch81 Red Chipper Posts: 212
    Just saying, seemed like he was taking his sweet time just to look at his cards. Then once he looks, it's more stalling when there's no way he should even be considering raising/calling. I don't mind him taking his time to select a raise size, like w/ AA but to do it when you should just be mucking is uncalled for. I understand not everyone folds as fast as Max but stalling every time you know you're folding pisses me off. Stern was doing too but I'm sure Stern was considering making plays some of the time. I'm a very patient person, not many things tilt me in poker or life... unnecessary stalling is just a major pet peeve of mine. I'm the kind of person that has never called the clock on anyone, but what this guy was doing was over the top. You don't have to be methodical before you look at your cards. You don't have to be methodical when you know you're folding either. End of rant.

    I didn't get to see all of it, only up until they started 3 handed is where I had to stop watching. Brutal beat for Tom. I somehow missed how Neuville busted but I know Joe busted him. Can someone tell me what happened there?
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,010 -
    Maybe he was coached by Doc Sands
    Moderation In Moderation
  • WpokerWpoker Red Chipper Posts: 35
    KemahPhil wrote:
    The slowness of some of the players was certainly a problem. It made live viewing painful. The commentators were saying that a "shot clock" of some sort will probably be implemented next year.

    Early last year I saw an article and advertisement on a shot clock that was built into the table. I thought it was a horrible idea, and would be too much like on-line poker. But I think it will come to be.


    I was wondering why McKeehen didn't become an aggressive bully when it was down to three players. He was so far ahead why not other than it doesn't make good television.
  • AbbbottAbbbott Red Chipper Posts: 24
    I thought it was one of the best tournaments they have had in years. I thought McKeehan played great, did exactly what a big stack should do. Elkie G had a huge lead like that in a World Poker Tour Event and went all in almost every habd instead of standars raising, and it wasn't as good of a strategy

    As for the slow play, I know they are playing for more money that any of them ever made in a day, but it got to be crazy. Bentley was the only guy who played with a good pace.

    I thought the all in on the second hand was stupid, gotta have at least an ace there to call

    I thought Blumenfield played like a pro, especially early at the final table.

    McKeehan caught almost as many great cards as Jamie Gold did on his run, but McKeehan is ten times the player Jamie Gold is (any new rumors about him being broke?)

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