Live vs Online Skill Levels

Riverboat BillRiverboat Bill Red Chipper Posts: 452 ✭✭
edited November 2015 in General Concepts
I find it very difficult to win online. So, I guess that answers my question. I think it's my mindset as well as the competition. If I play my best game online, the varying blind levels have a changing degree of difficulty. If I play .02/.05 for an hour, I can't run over the table. Sure I am going to win. But there are players there who can play.

Now, where do most people find the equivalencies? I see my game solid at .25/.50-.50/1. The 1/2 game is even. The 2/4 game is hard to beat. Part of it for me online is the variance plays a much bigger part at 2/4 than at .25/.50. How many buyins am I willing to lose? I see players at 2/4 who are down $800+ and are not going anywhere. I would be gone.

I have a BR. I consider it for my cash game and have never thought of putting a serious chunk online for playing. So, I am now imagining it would be best for me not to play the kind of live stakes I play or put a proper BR up to see how I make out. Another deal is getting my money when I win. When I win live, I get my money. There's no restriction on how much per week.

Comments

  • Riverboat BillRiverboat Bill Red Chipper Posts: 452 ✭✭
    Edit::
    I play 1/2-2/5/10 I think the online 1/2 players would do well in all these games. Same for the 2/4, but there are some big differences. One is aggression. The live games I play are not as aggressive. The pot sizes range larger online in the 1/2 games and players are going/coming quicker.
  • Morgan_BMorgan_B Red Chipper Posts: 262 ✭✭
    Online requires more skill sets/ tools. Basically anything over micro-stakes you can't beat by just playing for value. You'll have to learn how to win more pots without a showdown. This means bluffing any two cards in some situations. For example anytime your opponent misses a c-bet you should usually bet turn and river with air. When your opponent misses a turn or river c-bet, or if your opponent checks twice you should usually bet your air. If it's multiway and nobody is interested you should probably take a stab. You'll need to learn in what situations you should vary your bet sizing. You'll have to think about being unexploitable and make sure your ranges are constructed properly. You can't raise 50% from the BTN or SB then fold to a 3-bet 75% of the time etc. If you're playing against observant opponents you'll have to balance your ranges. You can't always check when you miss and you can't always bet your flush draws etc. You're going to have to invest in tracking software to analyze your game and find leaks. You'll need to learn all about HUDs and stats if you're playing on a site that allows tracking.

    The players I see at the casino are beginner level compared to my online opponents. Also if your win rate is smaller in terms of bb/100 you're going to have much more variance, downswings can devastate your bankroll. I don't think 10,000 hands is an adequate sample to estimate your win rate, I'd say 100,000. I guess that's my advice, play 50,000 hands at 5NL to 100NL and dial in your game. Make sure you have a solid win rate over a large sample before tackling higher levels.
    If I play .02/.05 for an hour, I can't run over the table

    I think you'll find more fish and calling stations at the micro stakes and should maybe focus on value rather than trying to get players to fold that hate to fold.
    I see players at 2/4 who are down $800+ and are not going anywhere. I would be gone.

    That's only 2 full buy-ins. If you can't stand to lose 2 buy-ins you're playing a limit that is probably 10X too high. Also you'll want to buy in for a full 100bb and keep a full stack. Plan your entire strategy as a 100bb strategy. You don't want to play a 100bb strategy with a 50bb stack. When I see a player with less that 70bb I automatically assume they are a weaker player.

    Hope this helps some, good luck :)
  • Riverboat BillRiverboat Bill Red Chipper Posts: 452 ✭✭
    Morgan_B wrote:
    Online requires more skill sets/ tools. Basically anything over micro-stakes you can't beat by just playing for value. You'll have to learn how to win more pots without a showdown. This means bluffing any two cards in some situations. For example anytime your opponent misses a c-bet you should usually bet turn and river with air. When your opponent misses a turn or river c-bet, or if your opponent checks twice you should usually bet your air. If it's multiway and nobody is interested you should probably take a stab. You'll need to learn in what situations you should vary your bet sizing. You'll have to think about being unexploitable and make sure your ranges are constructed properly. You can't raise 50% from the BTN or SB then fold to a 3-bet 75% of the time etc. If you're playing against observant opponents you'll have to balance your ranges. You can't always check when you miss and you can't always bet your flush draws etc. You're going to have to invest in tracking software to analyze your game and find leaks. You'll need to learn all about HUDs and stats if you're playing on a site that allows tracking.

    The players I see at the casino are beginner level compared to my online opponents. Also if your win rate is smaller in terms of bb/100 you're going to have much more variance, downswings can devastate your bankroll. I don't think 10,000 hands is an adequate sample to estimate your win rate, I'd say 100,000. I guess that's my advice, play 50,000 hands at 5NL to 100NL and dial in your game. Make sure you have a solid win rate over a large sample before tackling higher levels.
    If I play .02/.05 for an hour, I can't run over the table

    I think you'll find more fish and calling stations at the micro stakes and should maybe focus on value rather than trying to get players to fold that hate to fold.
    I see players at 2/4 who are down $800+ and are not going anywhere. I would be gone.

    That's only 2 full buy-ins. If you can't stand to lose 2 buy-ins you're playing a limit that is probably 10X too high. Also you'll want to buy in for a full 100bb and keep a full stack. Plan your entire strategy as a 100bb strategy. You don't want to play a 100bb strategy with a 50bb stack. When I see a player with less that 70bb I automatically assume they are a weaker player.

    Hope this helps some, good luck :)
    This is a lot of help as well as your post in another thread about bluffing, I copied it to do some study with it. A lot on people say 1,000BB is enough for live. I think 5000 is better. I feel I concentrate better at higher limits. I am now instead trying to see $30 in an hour is $30. If I win $350 this hour and lose $500 the next, then I actually lost $150 vs the $60 I could have from a lower limit game.

    I have recently purchased poker cruncher for mac. I run hud and use it. The key to using these for me is know how to use them. That's why I really like this site. It gives you an understanding of the game and what to look for.
  • Rello242Rello242 Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 595 ✭✭
    Morgan_B wrote:
    Online requires more skill sets/ tools. Basically anything over micro-stakes you can't beat by just playing for value. You'll have to learn how to win more pots without a showdown. This means bluffing any two cards in some situations. For example anytime your opponent misses a c-bet you should usually bet turn and river with air. When your opponent misses a turn or river c-bet, or if your opponent checks twice you should usually bet your air. If it's multiway and nobody is interested you should probably take a stab. You'll need to learn in what situations you should vary your bet sizing. You'll have to think about being unexploitable and make sure your ranges are constructed properly. You can't raise 50% from the BTN or SB then fold to a 3-bet 75% of the time etc. If you're playing against observant opponents you'll have to balance your ranges. You can't always check when you miss and you can't always bet your flush draws etc. You're going to have to invest in tracking software to analyze your game and find leaks. You'll need to learn all about HUDs and stats if you're playing on a site that allows tracking.

    The players I see at the casino are beginner level compared to my online opponents. Also if your win rate is smaller in terms of bb/100 you're going to have much more variance, downswings can devastate your bankroll. I don't think 10,000 hands is an adequate sample to estimate your win rate, I'd say 100,000. I guess that's my advice, play 50,000 hands at 5NL to 100NL and dial in your game. Make sure you have a solid win rate over a large sample before tackling higher levels.
    If I play .02/.05 for an hour, I can't run over the table

    I think you'll find more fish and calling stations at the micro stakes and should maybe focus on value rather than trying to get players to fold that hate to fold.
    I see players at 2/4 who are down $800+ and are not going anywhere. I would be gone.

    That's only 2 full buy-ins. If you can't stand to lose 2 buy-ins you're playing a limit that is probably 10X too high. Also you'll want to buy in for a full 100bb and keep a full stack. Plan your entire strategy as a 100bb strategy. You don't want to play a 100bb strategy with a 50bb stack. When I see a player with less that 70bb I automatically assume they are a weaker player.

    Hope this helps some, good luck :)

    +1 ... Really good explanation.
    -Rello

    "Its better to give than to receive, so bet more and call less"
    Check out my HUSNG Graph: Chips-Results
    Follow All the Action On My Blog: www.rello242.blogspot.com

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