Would you rather poker edition.

Player 1Player 1 Red Chipper Posts: 59 ✭✭
edited December 2015 in General Concepts
I had a conversation with a friend of mine about what kind of flop you should want if you could choose. The example we had was we have AA and we can choose between :Qc :7h :2s which is about as dry and it can get and still have some chance of getting paid something and something like :Qd :Jd :9s. He said you always want the driest board possible to make your decisions as easy as possible, I said that a wetter flop will allow a skill edge to manifest itself for example hand reading and getting money in or keeping money out of the pot when appropriate. Thoughts?

Comments

  • dirty moosedirty moose Red Chipper Posts: 482 ✭✭✭
    The old saying, aces will usually win you a small pot or lose you a big one.

    Your equity on that first flop is real high, Prolly won't win much. But will win often.
    That's second flop will most likely produce an extra street if value (depending on the run out). But when it isn't a friendly run out, can you fold the rockets???

    Moose
  • Player 1Player 1 Red Chipper Posts: 59 ✭✭
    on :Qc :7d :2h AA is about 98% according to flopzilla so you have almost 100% EV in ever dollar that goes in, on :Qh :Jh :9s AA is about 80% so would you rather give up the 18 points for avg ptt that is 4/5 times as big i think I would.
  • SplitSuitSplitSuit RCP Coach Posts: 3,984 -
    On the super wet board you are at the mercy of the board and aggression from your opponent.

    I'll take the dry flop everyday.
  • dirty moosedirty moose Red Chipper Posts: 482 ✭✭✭
    Btw dry flop all day
  • Doug HullDoug Hull RCP Coach Posts: 1,740 -
    Player 1 wrote:
    on :Qc :7d :2h AA is about 98% according to flopzilla so you have almost 100% EV in ever dollar that goes in, on :Qh :Jh :9s AA is about 80% so would you rather give up the 18 points for avg ptt that is 4/5 times as big i think I would.

    There is no equity in a vacuum like this.

    AA does not have 98% equity. It has equity versus a certain hand or a certain range of hands.
    Co-founder Red Chip Poker,
    Author Poker Plays You Can Use
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  • Player 1Player 1 Red Chipper Posts: 59 ✭✭
    Sorry to not give all the info I was assuming. For the exercise I assumed that Player raised the button and got called by villain in the BB with a range of approx 22-TT,A2s-ATs,A9o-ATo,K9s-KJs,65s-QJs,75s-QTs,65o-QJo. Both players have 100 Effective.
  • Rello242Rello242 Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 595 ✭✭
    Dry flop for me... I have nothing to prove vs no one with skill edge & i rather take the flop that gives me a higher chance of winning.
    -Rello

    "Its better to give than to receive, so bet more and call less"
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  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,013 -
    Rello242 wrote:
    Dry flop for me... I have nothing to prove vs no one with skill edge & i rather take the flop that gives me a higher chance of winning.

    I think the OP's point is which flop wins you the most money.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • Morgan_BMorgan_B Red Chipper Posts: 262 ✭✭
    Assuming your opponent has a range that will only continue a certain % of the time...

    OOP I'll take the dry flop and usually go for 3 streets of value.

    IP I'll take the wet flop and pot control or go for value depending on opponent and run out. You'll probably win more due to your opponent continuing a larger percentage of the time.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,013 -
    Morgan_B wrote:
    Assuming your opponent has a range that will only continue a certain % of the time...

    OOP I'll take the dry flop and usually go for 3 streets of value.

    IP I'll take the wet flop and pot control or go for value depending on opponent and run out. You'll probably win more due to your opponent continuing a larger percentage of the time.

    Yeah, this is the conclusion I reluctantly reached.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • Player 1Player 1 Red Chipper Posts: 59 ✭✭
    Yeah what I was trying to ask is what situation do people think will win the most money not the one you are most comfortable with, I am not one of those people who will turn things into a pissing contest I am only concerned with the highest EV.

    I think its interesting that some may prefer one board over the other in pos or OOP, Do you guys think that people overvalue POS and use it as an excuse to continue.

    BTW I would like an actual answer for the question of which board is better is that something that can be discovered using cardrunners EV i havnt used it yet.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Too many "it depends" to answer. In general, you'll make the most money on the wet board if there are opponents in the game who like to gamble for stacks with draws. I don't really care for the :Qd :Jd :9s board - I think :Qd :Jd :7s would be a little more interesting. You get your stack in on the first board and there are enough straights in the ranges of those who put in stacks, that you can get crushed equity-wise overall.

    I'll alter your question a little. Let's say you have :7h :7d on the :Qd :Jd :7s board vs. the :Qd :8c :7s board. I'll take the first board all the time, because that's where you get stacks in. As someone alluded to, 65% of $300 is more than 80% of $100.

    So AA is different because with the set you're beating all the 2 pair hands and you have a redraw with the set, as opposed to having the redraw to beat 2 pair and no way to beat a straight or flush. But the concept is similar, the numbers are just not as good. So you rely more on knowing how your opponent gambles.

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