Hourly Rate for $1/2

thepokermonkthepokermonk Red Chipper Posts: 320 ✭✭✭
edited March 2017 in New To Poker Questions
I'm trying to construct my goals for 2016 and I'm wondering what you guys think would be a realistic hourly rate goal for $1/2 and how you came up with that figure. Thanks in advance!
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Comments

  • FilthyCasualFilthyCasual Red Chipper Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2015

    If I recall correctly, it was something like
    3-5BBs for entry level at that level
    5-8BBs/hour would be good
    10+ it would likely be in your best interest to look at the next game up available for you. If you'd be moving to 2-5, you could be an 'entry' level 2-5 player, and make the same as your 1/2 top echelon

    Edit:
    I was recalling incorrectly, those number I recall were closer to BBs/100, but you can see some more info here
    http://www.thepokerbank.com/strategy/other/winrate/
  • ChibberChibber Red Chipper Posts: 371 ✭✭✭
    Instead of looking to establish a goal of an hourly win rate, why not set a goal addressing your leaks and how to improve them. For instance, if you feel you play to loose, set a goal for tightening up your pre flop starting hands. Or, if you don't think you value bet thinly on the river, set a goal to look opportunities to bet the river in spots you might not have done so before.
  • zagaresezagarese Red Chipper Posts: 200 ✭✭
    My live records entirely correlate with what SplitSuit initially said - I have made about 8.5 big blinds per per hour over the last six years and I have no doubt that I am a good but not spectacular live 1/2 NLHE player.

  • ChipXtractorChipXtractor Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 1,191 ✭✭✭✭
    zagarese wrote: »
    My live records entirely correlate with what SplitSuit initially said - I have made about 8.5 big blinds per per hour over the last six years and I have no doubt that I am a good but not spectacular live 1/2 NLHE player.

    That is very much in line with my recent results. I am sure higher win rates can be achieved, but at that point your skill level should allow you to earn even more at a higher level than 1-2.
    Twitter = @ChipXtractor
  • AliceAlice Red Chipper Posts: 2
    Do you include the rake in your win rate? Dealer tips? Where I play 1-2, $5 comes out of each pot over $19. I like to tip the dealer out of my pocket rather than take more chips off the table. So ... if you personally leave the table with $100 more than you started after 100 hands -- do you claim a win rate of 10bb/100 -- or do you add back in the $50 in rake you paid for the 10 hands you won, giving you a rate of 15bb/100. Obviously, if you're only goal is making money, the former makes sense, especially if you always play with the same rake structure. But if you play lots of places with drastically different rakes -- and your goal is to keep track of how well you are playing and hopefully improving, the latter makes more sense. Which is it that is typically used?
  • zagaresezagarese Red Chipper Posts: 200 ✭✭
    Personally, I do not include the rake, tips. My concern is if its profitable enough to keep doing vs the cost of doing it (gas, etc).

    I have doubts about using hourly in live games to figure out how well you're doing - the sample size for any one player pool is likely to be too small.
  • stocklocke&barrelstocklocke&barrel Red Chipper Posts: 4
    I've only been tracking my hour rate for three months. I'm mainly a tourney player. 39 hours, of cash $12/hr according to my poker app. How long of a period should I be tracking before jumping levels?
  • SplitSuitSplitSuit RCP Coach Posts: 3,986 -
    I've only been tracking my hour rate for three months. I'm mainly a tourney player. 39 hours, of cash $12/hr according to my poker app. How long of a period should I be tracking before jumping levels?

    So 39 hours of live is about 1,200 hands. When it comes to getting a handle on real-WR potential 50k hands is a starting point, 100k is pretty good, and 500k+ is solid.

    Since it will take years to establish your true-WR in live games (and by the time you finally did get a big enough sample size the game would have evolved from the beginning of your sample - essentially restarting the sample size at some point) - focus more on how sessions are going. Are you often times confused? Or do you get to the end of a session and only have 1-2 spots that you feel uncomfortable with?

    If you get through most study and play sessions and very rarely feel caught off guard and know your lines are confidently +EV in most spots - then it's time to consider taking shots when your BR is ready for it.
  • Ry4n0Ry4n0 Red Chipper Posts: 6
    How does the WR compare between live and online say at 1/2 level.
  • SplitSuitSplitSuit RCP Coach Posts: 3,986 -
    Ry4n0 wrote: »
    How does the WR compare between live and online say at 1/2 level.

    Night and day.

    Live you can easily do 15bb/100, online you are crushing if you do 4bb/100.
  • evpropevprop Red Chipper Posts: 62 ✭✭
    Why set goals on something that is out of your control?
    You cant control variance, variance dictates your win-rate albeit in the short term, and it sounds like a 1 year goal playing live is short-term?
  • Doug HullDoug Hull RCP Coach Posts: 1,747 -
    If we assume there are about 33 hands an hour, this translates to 15BB about every three hours. At 1-2 this is about $10 an hour. At $2-$5 it is $25 an hour. This is a very achievable win rate.
    Co-founder Red Chip Poker,
    Author Poker Plays You Can Use
    Author Poker Workbook for Math Geeks
  • ChipXtractorChipXtractor Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 1,191 ✭✭✭✭
    Doug Hull wrote: »
    If we assume there are about 33 hands an hour, this translates to 15BB about every three hours. At 1-2 this is about $10 an hour. At $2-$5 it is $25 an hour. This is a very achievable win rate.

    I would assume your 1-2 win rate is much higher than $10 per hour? I know mine is, and you probably play in better games than I do, and definitely are a better player.
    Twitter = @ChipXtractor
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,643 ✭✭✭✭✭
    SplitSuit wrote: »
    Since it will take years to establish your true-WR in live games (and by the time you finally did get a big enough sample size the game would have evolved from the beginning of your sample - essentially restarting the sample size at some point)

    Yeah, I've said similar before. To wit - in poker you can never actually know your true win rate. You can know how much you've actually won, but you can never know your EV because by the time you have enough data to figure it out, the variables have changed. You're a different player, and the players you're playing against are either different or have changed/evolved as well. Bottom line, you never have reliable enough data to actually know your true win rate.

    Knowing how "good" you are at poker would be a different thing, and there might be ways to evaluate that. How good you are is a more general question and doesn't relate to the local players you're playing against, but more to your general knowledge and what sorts of decisions you make in different scenarios. The way to do this would be to take some sort of test with answers agreed upon by some group of poker experts. There are a few books like this. But of course that's still subjective and related to style, etc.

  • kageykagey Red Chipper, KINGOFTAGS Posts: 2,241 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Agree with what others have said - I would avoid setting a winrate as a goal.
    You can easily run above or below expectations whether you play well or poorly.
    So setting a goal that's totally out of your control is just asking for frustration.

    Your goals should be to make the best decisions in the moment with the information available, to play a consistent strategy and to walk away when you're not playing your "A" game. Do this and the money will come... eventually. How much it will be depends on so many factors that can drive yourself crazy trying get there.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I do not play live consistently, but I have about $14/hr win rate at $1/2, but I do not push all my edges and my game is constantly improving. I read in the past that $25/hr is achievable at $1/2 and I believe it is possible given the right game and if your mixing it up. If your a straight forwards ABC player I think $10/hr is fair win rate in today's games for $1/2. I remember around my first 300 hours or so I was averaging close to $30/hr, but wasn't experience much variance besides typical 2-4 buyin. It averages out where you can be card dead for six hours and just be chipped away in blinds. My tips come out of my stack. My goal this year is to just play better post flop and push more edges. Where most people call with say AJ or AQ on A94T3 and you think they have a weak ace cause they are betting like $20 into $100 pot, my goal is to start pushing my edges even if its just a min raise on the river.
  • Ruxton_AtheistRuxton_Atheist Red Chipper Posts: 152 ✭✭✭
    For a live player, I think game selection is more important than win rate math. Don't identify with a specific stake; often, it is more profitable to exploit massive edges vs bad opponents than to eek out small edges vs players at a similar skill level.
  • bleedTiltbleedTilt Red Chipper Posts: 86 ✭✭
    Local room has a $1/$2 that is really soft. But, Rake is 10% ($7 max) +$1 for BBJ over $20. Is this beatable?
  • ChibberChibber Red Chipper Posts: 371 ✭✭✭
    bleedTilt wrote: »
    Local room has a $1/$2 that is really soft. But, Rake is 10% ($7 max) +$1 for BBJ over $20. Is this beatable?

    Short answer is: No!

    But if you're not playing "for profit" meaning playing to support yourself, then maybe it doesn't really matter if the game is beatable...
  • BourbonizeBourbonize Red Chipper Posts: 43 ✭✭
    edited June 2016
    I've been playing full-time for about a year now and have done well at 1/2. I'm making $29/hr and people are always saying I should move up to 2/5, but I'd rather sit with the bad 1/2 recs than play with the better players. Is this stupid thinking? I don't think I could accomplish the same win rate at a higher level. If it ain't broke...
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bourbonize wrote: »
    I've been playing full-time for about a year now and have done well at 1/2. I'm making $29/hr and people are always saying I should move up to 2/5, but I'd rather sit with the bad 1/2 recs than play with the better players. Is this stupid thinking? I don't think I could accomplish the same win rate at a higher level. If it ain't broke...

    $29\hr is solid depending on how large your sample is. I am averaging around 15\hr with a bad start and small sample.

    A lot of the play at 2\5 is similar i think. A tad more aggro. Its like 25nl to 50nl online. Often times you will see a lot of 1\2 players taking shots. If you have 1000 hours and big enough roll i would move up. Maybe just take a shot on the weekend.

    Other people are comfortable taking 600-800 swings on 1 2 but can't bare 1500-2000 swings.

    During my 10k goal i felt a lot of pressure beginning of the month because i was losing. Now i can take a 600 swing with confidence. No tilt at all.

    2\5 you can average 30-75 if games are soft. I rather play in a 1\2 soft game than a 2\5 tag game..game selection is more important.
  • EazzyEazzy Red Chipper Posts: 946 ✭✭✭✭
    I can only say I revamped my game at the end of Aug 2013.....and started keeping records by counting my money before I leave home and then counting my money when I get back.....Hours are calculated by checking the tear credits and are slightly inflated as a few friends have played slots on my card to help me get Diamond status.

    Most of the games I play are deep 1-2 100 to 500 buy in though most play like a normal 1-2 with buy ins from 100 to 300 by most players (I buy in for 200)... Some games do play like 1-3 or 2-5 as a lot of 2-5 players play when 2-5 not running...so my numbers may be a little high....I play mainly in the afternoons and early evening....and depend on having lots of control over my opponents, but some games do of course have a few fish and an occasional whale.

    I have also made roughly 10,000 or so from room shares of bad beats, high hands, rake back, and free role tournaments though my poker rooms (this comes to about $3 and hour)....though I do pay an extra $2 in promostion bad beat rake....$6 total rake...I think this is close to a push

    My caluclation are after all expenses but they are very low... not much more then $1 and hour as for the last 2 years food had been pretty much free, the buss ride actually makes me a little money, rooms used to cost 13 (tax resort fee whatever that I cold not use compss) and now actually only cost $5... A few other expenses are included...(anything I buy for under $20 I use cash and are thus expensed)...

    I have gone on monkey tilt a few times....and despite all of this I make a bit over $18 and hour....for close to 3000 hours.... My maximum draw down has been less the 1500....
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,643 ✭✭✭✭✭
    $29/hr is really good, and if you can maintain that for the next year I don't see any reason to move to $2/5. Unless of course the same players are playing there.
  • kytmagickytmagic Red Chipper Posts: 184 ✭✭
    $29/hr is pretty unreal. =D
  • Daniel LDaniel L Red Chipper Posts: 33 ✭✭
    My records show 14.6 BB/hour over ~2400 hands at a mixture of £1-£1, £1-£2 and £1-£3.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,643 ✭✭✭✭✭
    According to my records, I have a win rate of 900BB/hr over 1 hand. It was a good hand.
  • kerrizorkerrizor Red Chipper Posts: 70 ✭✭
    250 hours of 1/3 in my DB, making $18/hour.. but more interestingly, perhaps, is that I also calculate and graph my win rate for the last 50 sessions and the last 10 sessions. As long as I'm steady or moving upwards, I feel like I'm doing ok, and helps to smooth out (and identify) when variance is helping/hurting my bankroll.

    (I also have a handful of mental game scales I rank my sessions on, to keep track of how I'm handling emotional swings good and bad, as well as a general "how lucky was I" score of -10 to +10 to keep my honest..)
  • Mr. DontMr. Dont Red Chipper Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    Ive just recently started record my session report. Have just 3-4 month worth, 70hrs, $10/hr. However, my overall performance is getting slightly better as I review sessions after sessions and see why I did well or bad. Hopefully rate will keep going upward.
  • AcesaladAcesalad Red Chipper Posts: 240 ✭✭
    I am averaging $17/hr over 261 hours. I play once a week in a $1/$2 NLHE home game and I only play once a week so this is over about a year and a half. Also, my last two sessions were monsters so that may be skewed up a bit.

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