Tricky played overpair in straddle pot against lag

bonezybonezy Red Chipper Posts: 82 ✭✭
Good 2/5 game at my local casino. My current image is fairly tagish. I have showed down winners and have a very good feel for everyone at the table from past playing expirence.

Main Villian is a pretty loose aggessive player but isnt good by any means. To put it simply he just clicks buttons it seems like.

1300 effective. Straddle pot. I am in BB with JhJc.
Folds to the sb who calls.
I raise to 45. Straddle calls and Sb folds.

Flop(100) 1074r. I bet 45. Straddle calls.
Turn(190) 8c. I check. There are a few reasons why I check here. I feel like villian will take a stab here a good amount of the time. Ive seen him float alot of flops and then take stabs in the past. I have a good feel for his game and feel if I bet he will fold all his bluffs and can also put me in some tough spots with his semi bluffs. I also am fairly sure he will value owe himself with a 10 here and a pair and a straight draw type hand(98, 97 mainly)

He bets 60. I call.

River (310). Ac. There are no flush draws that come in. I check again. He bets 105. I am getting about 4 to 1 on the call but my reads Tell me that I think this is a value bet sizing. I feel like he is capable of turning a pair and straight draw into a bluff here but I think he bets bigger in that case. Also I dont think on this river card this guy is capable of value betting a 10. I feel like he is checking back most of his showdown value type hands that include 10s. What do you guys to here when getting 4 to1 against this player type?

Comments

  • ChipDouglas1ChipDouglas1 Red Chipper Posts: 95 ✭✭
    Personally as played w/ your context if I was going to check the turn....it would be to check/raise. There are a number of cards to come that I wont like (6, J-A) and as you say he will value own himself with a 10 or pair+ draw type hand.
  • GabeyJGabeyJ Red Chipper Posts: 436 ✭✭✭
    You say he has floats then bets out the turn when checked to. What type of board texture is he doing this on? Also he is prob calling on the flop with anything that even remotely connected with that flop. Pre flop raise and flop bet are to small. You lead for under half pot in a situation where you might want to bet a lil more than half pot like 65 70. His range is all over this board but you are still at the top of your range you shouldn't want him sticking around I think you are just betting turn here.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 4,199 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You would be better served to x/r the turn once this action occurs, as he is now setting a price and you are rewarding him by turning your premium into a bluffcatcher. Part of his range improved and can call or give up versus this x/r, whereas it won't continue on the river unless it does improve and he gets to put you in this spot every time when you just call.

    As played follow through on your plan and call given price.
  • bonezybonezy Red Chipper Posts: 82 ✭✭
    I Think check raising seems a little unessacary? I feel like A x/r doesnt get much action from a 10, and the only other hands a x/r gets value from is a pair and straight draw. This guy isnt really a calling station type and I feel like if I check raise I blow him off his hand. Usually the way to beat a lag is to check to him and let him bluff and value own himself. Check raising just seems to tell him I have most of your range beat so you are safe to continue with the top or your range.

    I did call the river bet and he had AQ for a rivered top pair.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 4,199 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sure, it would be fine to bluff catch if he were making normal sized bets and you were holding on, but he has chosen a line which exposes him to being punished. Choosing to let him set the price for the next card with your value range doesn't allow you to have a bluffing range and also controls the size of the pot. You become a much tougher player when you raise your continuing hands here, because you are capitalizing on his mistake.
  • bonezybonezy Red Chipper Posts: 82 ✭✭
    persuadeo wrote: »
    Sure, it would be fine to bluff catch if he were making normal sized bets and you were holding on, but he has chosen a line which exposes him to being punished. Choosing to let him set the price for the next card with your value range doesn't allow you to have a bluffing range and also controls the size of the pot. You become a much tougher player when you raise your continuing hands here, because you are capitalizing on his mistake.

    very good point. This guy definietly wansnt thinking on this level. And to make your point even more clear, I would probably be more inclined to x/r if I was bluffing here, because his smaller bet size just looks like a weak stab so I would usuaully punish that with a bluff and not always do the same with a value hand. good point
  • EazzyEazzy Red Chipper Posts: 986 ✭✭✭✭
    If you check the turn because he bets here (and I agree with you) then you check the river, I would think his river range on an A would be close to all his hands that are not a pair of tens,...His range is so wide that an A still is only a small part...

    So without a definite bet tell its a snap call..(if you think its a week Ace tell, perhaps, a big raise might actually be your best play)

    I also see no reason to check raise the turn...let a lag do what they do keep betting and don't worry about a bad card on the river....there are not any since his range is so big...

  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There are three opposing concepts here.

    1) Let a LAG do the betting for you, don't scare him away with weaker hands than yours
    2) Play small pots with small (1 pair) hands
    3) Punish the LAG player for his draws and weak range

    Personally I'm not sure how to prioritize this, and I'd like to hear more. Being OOP on this hand makes some things harder. For example, one way to keep the pot smaller is to skip a street of betting. If you check/raise and get called, then not only are you probably having a bet on each street (if you check/raise and then check, you're probably getting bet into on the river), but you've bloated the pot already on the turn. So instead of a 2-bet hand, you turned it into a 4-bet hand.

    Which might be fine, but as I said, opposing concepts in play here.

    As played, I think the flop bet is a little small, otherwise fine and call on the river.

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