Flush draw faces re-re-raise postflop.

OddAndyOddAndy Red Chipper Posts: 39 ✭✭
Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (SB): 59.14 BB
BB: 76.1 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 3.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 30)
CO: 128.12 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 4.17, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 25)
BTN: 77.88 BB (VPIP: 22.73, PFR: 9.09, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 22)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T:club: 9:club:

fold, BTN calls 1 BB, Hero calls 0.5 BB, BB checks

Flop: (3 BB, 3 players) 9:diamond: 8:club: K:club:
Hero checks, BB checks, BTN bets 1.9 BB, Hero raises to 7 BB, fold, BTN raises to 16 BB, Hero calls 9 BB

Turn: (35 BB, 2 players) 2:club:
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: (35 BB, 2 players) J:diamond:
Hero raises to 13 BB, BTN calls 13 BB

Hero shows T:club: 9:club: (Flush, King High)
(Pre 44%, Flop 62%, Turn 0%)
BTN shows 5:club: A:club: (Flush, Ace High)
(Pre 56%, Flop 38%, Turn 100%)
BTN wins 57.96 BB

0.48 BB was deducted from the pot for the jackpot.

Comments

  • JfdiwinsJfdiwins Red Chipper Posts: 52
    Hi Oddandy,
    I would make lots of notes on the villain. They have limped the button which is normally a sign of a weak player. They confirm this by flat calling on the river with the nuts.!

    In a cash game you want to play this villain a lot and target them as they are weak.

    The hand ends up being a cooler. What does the villain limp pre flop , then raise on the flop. I would suggest k8/k9/89/88/99 may be in their range as well as straight and flush draws. So you go for value on the river and don't get stacked either so you pretty much lost near to the minimum given the villains play throughout the hand and their range.

    I tend to default raise pre flop a lot vs any player limping the button unless I know they limp raise in this spot. I often raise a limper to 6 or 7 Bb until I find their pain threshold when they will fold. I see players making it 3 or 4 bb and getting called a lot. That said it probably wouldn't work here vs villains hand.

    One other point is that I see 3/4 players have less than 100 bb so they aren't using auto top up. Most good players unless playing off a 40bb stack/strategy auto top up to 100bb. A potential indicator of a recreational player can be their starting stack size. If you aren't using auto top up you should strongly consider it or other players may target you.
  • Rello242Rello242 Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 595 ✭✭
    One thing i want to add here is the fact that you have a flush draw w/ second pair, I could understand your reason for raising etc. but do note your second pair is already ahead of ton of his hands that bets. By raising you could really cause worse to fold, and its almost like turning your pair of 9 here into a bluff. Your in a really good spot against his range whenever you flop second pair + draw or better, I would probably keep my raising range for pure draws w/ no pair or bottom pair + draw which I know I can clearly semi bluff.
    -Rello

    "Its better to give than to receive, so bet more and call less"
    Check out my HUSNG Graph: Chips-Results
    Follow All the Action On My Blog: www.rello242.blogspot.com
  • JfdiwinsJfdiwins Red Chipper Posts: 52
    Hi Rello,
    I really like your response and it has identified an area I would like to improve on.
    Please could you explain further the difference here in relation to combo draws and the approach you take.

    I would look at my outs and play aggressively with combo draws (14 outs+ on the flop)without considering whether I have top pair/2nd pair/bottom pair as my equity is likely to be around 50% plus (providing the villain doesn't have a better flush draw/set), as opposed to considering having a pair plus draw and trying to extract value street by street.

    I think I am putting myself in too many variance spots by ending up all in and in a flip with a combo draw. I do find that my 14 outs aren't always 14 outs though as would have happened in this hand.

    In what situations would you play street to street rather than raising / getting all in on the flop? By raising on the flop could we get some weaker kings or a nine with a better kicker to fold as well as getting some hands we are ahead of to fold? How do you balance this out?

    Thanks very much.
  • JfdiwinsJfdiwins Red Chipper Posts: 52
    Sorry,
    just to clarify had this flop been less co-ordinated such as Kc 9d 4c I would be looking to re-raise/shove with my potential equity/outs on the flop.

    I wouldn't be looking to move all in on this particular flop due to the 2 pair/draws that are unlikely to fold but I would probably still raise on the flop just due to my outs. I am just wondering about which lines to take that could be more +EV.
    Thanks
  • Rello242Rello242 Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 595 ✭✭
    Please could you explain further the difference here in relation to combo draws and the approach you take.

    First, lets identify the difference between having Jc Tc here vs having Tc 9c here. First of all, in equity both hands are doing really well. The JT here has enormous outs and that gives this hands alot of equity in this pot. The T9 has a reasonable pair which means your equity is already good but the flush draw increases this equity to being a favorite. The difference between these 2 hands is on the Turn. Your T9 won't lose much equity on a brick but your JT will. Not so much equity where you have to fold alot of the times if you play your JT street for street but it will be lower than your T9. Usually, with this means is you have options to stretch your T9 out to play a small pot if allowed and just raise if you improve, because no matter what happens you have showdown value and a very good one. Not saying that you should never raise here, but you have options you can clearly excercise. The JT however, is what i would call the "perfect" bluff here. Its one that you can put pressure on weaker hands with the bonus of making even stronger hands against vs villain strong hands. With the JT case, it's better to fold out those A-high and 8x hands. You really want to be folding A-high and 8x with your T9 hand? You don't have to worry about him catching a next pair often because even if he does, you have outs, so why not keep those hands in his range?
    I think I am putting myself in too many variance spots by ending up all in and in a flip with a combo draw. I do find that my 14 outs aren't always 14 outs though as would have happened in this hand.I think I am putting myself in too many variance spots by ending up all in and in a flip with a combo draw. I do find that my 14 outs aren't always 14 outs though as would have happened in this hand.

    Everytime you raise decide if it's value or bluff. Forget semi-bluffing or "protection" bet for now, think it's value or bluff. With that being said, not everybody is bluffable so do you really want to be flipping against those people? However there is a flip side to your stronger bluffs like this combo draw. For example, if your villain is holding a 9x type of hand that is willing to gamble it up when you raise, then a hand like Jc Tc in this spot has better equity. It's a flaw, or an exception i should say, but it's a favourable one that you should at least think about. Overall, the wrong mindset is to mindlessly just be raising in any situation just because..... Know exactly what is your accomplishing, and if you don't know exactly what it accomplishes, then that's a sign that you need to mark the hand, look it over for off table work and/or pay more attention to information at the game that is available and being presented.

    -Rello

    "Its better to give than to receive, so bet more and call less"
    Check out my HUSNG Graph: Chips-Results
    Follow All the Action On My Blog: www.rello242.blogspot.com
  • JfdiwinsJfdiwins Red Chipper Posts: 52
    Thanks very much Rello.
  • Rello242Rello242 Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 595 ✭✭
    No Problem
    -Rello

    "Its better to give than to receive, so bet more and call less"
    Check out my HUSNG Graph: Chips-Results
    Follow All the Action On My Blog: www.rello242.blogspot.com

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