[NL5] 4bet 99

TuffTuff Red Chipper Posts: 148 ✭✭
edited January 2016 in Online Poker Hands
$0.02/$0.05 No Limit Holdem
PokerStars6 Players

I came in this hand with a player where i noticed he 3bets a lot in the Blinds and given his VPI/PFR i think we can 4bet here with the best hand very often but also as isolation otherwise we go 3 or 4way to the flop

I 4bet here to isolate him and if he jams or 5bet i have an option to fold. If he only calls i think hes weaker and want to see a flop and that makes his range more like 2 broadwaycards like A10, AJ, AQ and AK or K10,KJ and KQ.

UTG Hero ($5) 100bb
UTG+1 ($9.72) 194bb
CO ($5.12) 102bb
BTN ($5) 100bb
SB ($3.57) 71bb
BB ($6.53) 131bb VPIP: 36, PFR: 26, 3B: 12, AF: 1,1, Hands: 70
Pre-Flop: (0.07, 6 players) Hero is UTG :9s :9c

Hero raises to $0.15, 2 folds, BTN calls $0.15, SB calls $0.13, BB raises to $0.70, Hero raises to $1.65, BTN folds, SB folds, BB calls $0.95

Flop: :6c :4c :4s ($3.60, 2 players)

BB checks,

Hero bets ?


The flop is good and given he only called the flop i think our pair is good. Then the BB checked to u and we would never check this flop with an overpair so he's weak at this point.

What would we do here? I dont think he will call with a weaker hand when we jam all in with 2 streets to come.

Checking is bad and give him a free catch to an overcard of flusdraw.

How about a small bet like 1$ to induce a shove since his stats show some loose agro moves or leave a 40% potbet for the turn if no facecard comes or a club?
My SSD is faster then your HDD ---

Comments

  • zagaresezagarese Red Chipper Posts: 200 ✭✭
    As i read it you have 3.35 left in your stack.

    I think you jam it.

    You can also do the same with many, maybe all, of your unpaired hands such as AK.

    What other hands would you bet to induce with? Just your overpairs?


  • Rello242Rello242 Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 595 ✭✭
    Do you have positional stats on his 3bets?

    70 Hands is way too small to assume anything just yet IMO.
    -Rello

    "Its better to give than to receive, so bet more and call less"
    Check out my HUSNG Graph: Chips-Results
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  • TuffTuff Red Chipper Posts: 148 ✭✭
    btn 28.6(7) SB 11,1 (9) BB 10,0 (10)
    My SSD is faster then your HDD ---
  • Rello242Rello242 Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 595 ✭✭
    Are these vs the position? Or when he is in those position? (I should have clarified earlier sorry)

    Either way, it looks like he only 3betted so far 4 times in the match. Despite his stats, its probably too early on to be putting yourself in tricky spots. I would probably recommend to give him time first see if he still continues to 3bet alot, probably look to see if he shows down a hand first.

    If the stats are vs those position, then you can see he is 3betting the BTN open where it's wide early on which probably means he is more positional aware and focus on 3betting light loose openers from the BTN. When someone usually 3bets the UTG, you want to make sure your not confusing their 3bet with re-steals and other spots where they would 3bet light more often.
    -Rello

    "Its better to give than to receive, so bet more and call less"
    Check out my HUSNG Graph: Chips-Results
    Follow All the Action On My Blog: www.rello242.blogspot.com
  • TuffTuff Red Chipper Posts: 148 ✭✭
    edited January 2016
    What does the number (10) mean behind 10.0, or (9) behind 11,1. Those stats are in those positions
    My SSD is faster then your HDD ---
  • Rello242Rello242 Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 595 ✭✭
    (10) - Most likely means the oppurtunity he had to 3bet in those position. So for example to have 10% over 10 hands, he 3bet once.

    To have 11.1% over (9) hands he 3bet once.

    -Rello

    "Its better to give than to receive, so bet more and call less"
    Check out my HUSNG Graph: Chips-Results
    Follow All the Action On My Blog: www.rello242.blogspot.com
  • TuffTuff Red Chipper Posts: 148 ✭✭
    edited January 2016
    Then as played should we fold 99 preflop? Calling for setmine and multiway is an option in a multiwaypot but whe are OOP so i like the 4bet here to go HU and see how he respons. Calling a 4bet seems to be weak most of the times but with some EQ like 2 overs... if hes strong he will shove it
    My SSD is faster then your HDD ---
  • Rello242Rello242 Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 595 ✭✭
    I mean here is the case, if we are basing this solely on your HUD stats, then you should be aware that they are for the most part not all that reliable with little hands. For that reason, yes folding Pre is better. Besides, other than your assumptions what other evidence is out there to prove he continues with those broadways? Don't get me wrong having those assumptions are King because you are thinking about his range, thats great, however, you still have to recognize spots where its only your assumptions and nothing else. This is where you really want to be careful with marginal spots, and its probably better to just pass it up and wait because there will be 3 things that will likely happen in these marginal spots:

    1. You get in a marginal spot playing carefully, and he makes a move causing you to fold.
    2. You get in a marginal spot playing carefully, and lose a decent pot here
    3. You get in marginal spot playing carefully, and you win a decent pot here

    Your not liking if you take this spot and he comes over the top of you, or you check back flop and he make a big bet on the turn. (My #1 Example)

    When you go post here, and you make a cbet your going to be committing yourself, where if he jams for the rest.... Well, your spot isn't looking so good. (Example #2)

    Then there are the times, when he folds, you take down the small pot or he over values AK or something here and you win. (Example #3)

    Note: These are just the example for the flop texture you post. Think about other flop textures and how it affects your marginal spot.


    2 Examples aren't good and 1 Example is. Think about it before putting yourself in those marginal spots. Usually spots like this, you will perform much better once you have solid reads to go along with your assumptions.


    Calling OOP, is even more trickier, so I agree with you there for sure, however treat calling OOP just like a marginal spot where you want reads, because for sure if you can get him to 3bet with such wide ranges like a ton of broadway combos, then cbet a bunch of those combos, you probably have an extra reason to just flat and play post rather than 3bet and eliminating some of those combos + get no bluffs from cbets.
    -Rello

    "Its better to give than to receive, so bet more and call less"
    Check out my HUSNG Graph: Chips-Results
    Follow All the Action On My Blog: www.rello242.blogspot.com
  • TuffTuff Red Chipper Posts: 148 ✭✭
    edited January 2016
    Let me begin to say that i like the way you comment mine, and others post Rello. It helps me to improve my pokermind and way to think. :-)

    I dont completly relay on HUD stats that much if we have a small sample. I Just add them here to make the post more complete.

    I think when we go into 3 and 4betting we are in a marginal spot most of the time yes.

    But given that he only calls my 4bet i think were ahead. So 4betting here gives me some information or take the pot down uncontested because my 4bet looks really strong and we are UTG

    What does it tell us when he only calls..... Any other good cards like AA/KK/AK would jam preflop over me right? 1010/JJ/QQ would bet the flop instead checking so let's asume that we are ahead... what do we do? Against 2 overcards (Or Ax) or Flushdraw we have 75% EQ.

    With all that information in mind how do we proceed the flop?




    My SSD is faster then your HDD ---
  • Rello242Rello242 Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 595 ✭✭
    edited January 2016
    TT-QQ don't always bet the flop because you do have the lead. Once you put them on that range, your basically depending on the number of combos of overcards in his range. The key to this situation is the unpaired hand combos and more specifically the offsuit combos, since 1 offsuit unpaired hand is equivalent to the same number of combos as 2 paired hands. A suited unpaired hand though has less combos than a paired hand so if he had AQo/AQs/TT-QQ here, then your looking at an extremely marginal situation, where even though your actions pre was correct, you still end up in the examples I mentioned earlier. It gets better once you think they have AJo/AJs/ATo/ATs in that range. At this point, playing a cheap pot benefits you the most, but with the pot size you can still be blown off your hand where you really have to turn your hand into a bluff to be profitable here. So once you go post and get this kind of flop, you should be looking to maximize fold equity, so betting as a bluff would be your best bet under these circumstances.

    Notice though that for this to turn slightly in your favor, you still need a better assumption, but I'll never argue with it because you obviously know the spot better than me since you were there, but once again I would like to imply that you should still be careful taking marginal spots based on assumptions with not much backup reads.
    -Rello

    "Its better to give than to receive, so bet more and call less"
    Check out my HUSNG Graph: Chips-Results
    Follow All the Action On My Blog: www.rello242.blogspot.com
  • Rello242Rello242 Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 595 ✭✭
    P.S. Thank you btw, I try my best to make points in a manner that people understand what is correct rather than just telling them what is correct
    -Rello

    "Its better to give than to receive, so bet more and call less"
    Check out my HUSNG Graph: Chips-Results
    Follow All the Action On My Blog: www.rello242.blogspot.com
  • TuffTuff Red Chipper Posts: 148 ✭✭
    edited January 2016
    This is what i did... i bet 1$ and he jamed on the flop... i snapped because i bet small to induce and then we cannot fold when villain gives us the action we where looking for.

    Instead of shoving the flop myself i gave him a chance to overplay his broadwaycards wich we where ahead of

    The board :6c :4c :4s :6h :Jh

    he showed :Ah :Qh

    So i won the hand but the outcome is not that important. I was courious enough to post the hand here to learn how to think in a spot like this.

    Thank you Rello
    My SSD is faster then your HDD ---
  • Rello242Rello242 Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 595 ✭✭
    edited January 2016
    For the record, the induce worked out, where you got him to overplay a hand like AQs, but you should be betting bigger to actually fold these out because you don't want to give him the right price to make the call to see a turn card, where he can realize his equity, improve alot & if its an overcard your probably shutting down or not jamming like you should, allowing him to make plays on alot of rivers if you check back. However, your looking to make your stand right here on the flop. As played though, right call on the shove, I guess thats the benefit of playing weaker players who probably should be looking to call down with a hand like AQs, than shoving.

    The key thing is here, because of the pot size we will make the most mistakes if we allow ourself to be calling his bets, it will be a mistake to turn passive/nitty into this spot and just check/fold but at least we don't risk a bunch of money which is slightly better than calling, but your third option would seem like a protection bet/See where I am type bet which is probably the worse kind of bets you could make but given the options above, this is definitely better than the 2 so once we clear we will be falling on the bluffing side of the scale, we really want to focus on maximizing that fold equity.
    -Rello

    "Its better to give than to receive, so bet more and call less"
    Check out my HUSNG Graph: Chips-Results
    Follow All the Action On My Blog: www.rello242.blogspot.com

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