AA on the Button

SaintsTigersSaintsTigers Red Chipper Posts: 238 ✭✭
$1/3 game. $750 effective. I've been pretty active the last few hands, winning several pots without showdown through aggressive actions. So I have a perceived loose image. The action folds around to me on the button, I look down at :Ah :Ad , and open to $10. Small blind is a businessman type. Big blind just sat down at the table but has the look and demeanor of a good regular. He's waiting for a $2/5 seat and I'm pretty sure he's capable of making plays.

Both blinds call. Ignoring rake and dealer tip, pot is $30. Flop comes :Tc :4c :2s . I c-bet to $30, feeling like I could get some action from a lot of one pair hands given my image. Small blind folds. Big blind raises to $90. I smoothe call.

Turn is :Qc . Big blind checks. I bet $110. Big blind folds. Thoughts?

Given the stack sizes, I feel like a pot control turn check has merit.

Comments

  • FilthyCasualFilthyCasual Red Chipper Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2016
    Played it fine, imo. I hate that 40%(jk) of the time another club comes on the river and you're up a creek without a paddle.

    The check raise by BB is really odd, not sure why they are trying to rep. Think it was just a move to take attack the seemingly over aggro hero. TP reraise is such an over play in this spot, so a set or AcXc? Reraise is spewey, call is the nuts.

    You check the turn, he can rep a whole lot on the river that you can't.
  • Skors3Skors3 Red Chipper Posts: 664 ✭✭✭
    TP reraise is such an over play in this spot, so a set or AcXc? Reraise is spewey, call is the nuts.

    Could you expand further on why you think raising the $90 on the flop is bad? Am I reading that right? My initial thought was that if Hero's image is wild it may be hard for Villain to put him on AA. I'm curious as to your thoughts on why just calling the $90 is better.
  • FilthyCasualFilthyCasual Red Chipper Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    Skors3 wrote: »
    Could you expand further on why you think raising the $90 on the flop is bad? Am I reading that right? My initial thought was that if Hero's image is wild it may be hard for Villain to put him on AA. I'm curious as to your thoughts on why just calling the $90 is better.

    It allows the opponent to play really well against you. I don't like to answer a question with a question, but If you were to raise it, would you be able to say it was for value or as a bluff? When I ask that question to myself, I'm not sure. I would think it was for value, but I also think a three bet is overplaying the hand with 1 pair (even an overpair).

    My read on the situation was the BB was making a checkraise stab at the pot. Calling allows him to stab again on the turn and make more errors. If he is bluffing, which I think is the majority of the time, I want to give him more rope to hang himself.

  • Skors3Skors3 Red Chipper Posts: 664 ✭✭✭
    That's fair and it very well may be true. I was just thinking along the lines of our image here. If we raise back we may still have that wild image.
  • FilthyCasualFilthyCasual Red Chipper Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2016
    Skors3 wrote: »
    That's fair and it very well may be true. I was just thinking along the lines of our image here. If we raise back we may still have that wild image.
    I could be wrong, but I don't think I am on this example! I love finding out I am wrong on these message boards though :)
  • JesseJesse Red Chipper Posts: 134 ✭✭
    Did BB really just sit down and buy into this game for >$700? That seems unusually large to me.
  • GabeyJGabeyJ Red Chipper Posts: 436 ✭✭✭
    Why are you leading for pot?
  • SaintsTigersSaintsTigers Red Chipper Posts: 238 ✭✭
    I called his flop check raise in order to give him another chance to bluff the turn or make a mistaken value bet. Also, just calling has the value of pot control. We're deep stacked and so I'm not really looking to play a 200bb pot with just one pair.
  • SaintsTigersSaintsTigers Red Chipper Posts: 238 ✭✭
    Jesse wrote: »
    Did BB really just sit down and buy into this game for >$700? That seems unusually large to me.

    At that cardroom they let players buy in for as much as the biggest stack. And another player had $1,000. Buying in for this much is one of the reasons I thought he was capable of making plays...
  • sparkyAAsparkyAA Red Chipper Posts: 160 ✭✭
    Played it fine, although a larger turn bet would be advised. I believe his range would be 108s+, sets, and clubs (and seldom other hands like overcards or 35) to reraise to 90. The reraise seems fairly big for a set, so i would discount that (especially since he would have probably reraised pre with 10 10, so discount that even more). Given he is also looking to play 2/5, he could very well want to gamble/ to apply pressure to you, since he will only be at this table for a few minutes. Once he checks the turn, You can assume this is not a trapping situation and that his hand is inferior to yours.

    The 110 was too small IMO, but that is for you to consider. Reason being is he will only call with a hand that has a lot of equity, and you are still deep. hands he will continue with are a 10 with an A,K,or possibly J of clubs. all of these hands would probably flat you preflop and could possibly reraise on the flop, and check the turn. You bet 110 into 210, so he is already getting 34% to call (110 to call, pot of 320). Factor in some implied odds, since the pot is $420 and your effective stack is $490, and he is in a position to definitely call with superior equity. Ask yourself, if a club or broadway card hit, do you call a bet of $200? if so, you are effectively laying him $110 to win $520, and he has 14 outs in most scenarios.

    A bet of 180+ is optimal here I believe. you are ahead of a vast majority of his range, and want to make sure he is not getting the right odds to call and bust you out. Your hand is clearly strong on the flop, by betting and calling a reraise. Only way he is continuing is if he has a real chance to hit a money card on the river and get a big bet in. Make sure he does not have the right odds to do this.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,325 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2016
    -ev wrote: »
    The check raise by BB is really odd, not sure why they are trying to rep. Think it was just a move to take attack the seemingly over aggro hero.

    Agreed, and in addition to image, hero's raise was first in and from the button.
    -ev wrote: »
    You check the turn, he can rep a whole lot on the river that you can't.

    My approach to that is "I really don't care what you're repping, I only care that I'm usually ahead of a lot of it." If I check the turn (for pot control, balance, whatever), I'm calling any river card except another club. Do you think that's a bad line?

  • Jimmy3150Jimmy3150 Red Chipper Posts: 362 ✭✭
    Surely a check-raise on this board is likely to be repping a set?

    I re-raised in a similar situation recently and villain folded ... I was kicking myself afterwards as I read him correctly as just making a play on me, I should have definitely given him more opportunities to bluff at the pot. Though I do think Villain dependent a flop re-raise with this board texture has merit, so often this will be a semi-bluff with the nut flush draw at live 1/2 games I play in ... So it's a re-raise for value and protection (you don't really want him dictating terms with his flush draw do you?)

    I think betting is much better than checking the turn as you avoid a potentially tough spot on the river if villain makes a big bet - given board texture.
  • SaintsTigersSaintsTigers Red Chipper Posts: 238 ✭✭
    Looking back, I like a turn check followed by a river call down or value bet. We were pretty deep so a check has pot control going for it. Plus if he has a hand like A10 he's likely to make a mistaken river value bet, or more likely make a calling mistake because the check camouflages the strength of my hand.

  • FilthyCasualFilthyCasual Red Chipper Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2016
    jeffnc wrote:
    -ev wrote: »
    You check the turn, he can rep a whole lot on the river that you can't.

    My approach to that is "I really don't care what you're repping, I only care that I'm usually ahead of a lot of it." If I check the turn (for pot control, balance, whatever), I'm calling any river card except another club. Do you think that's a bad line?

    If we aren't betting overpairs, we are only betting flushes and sets for value. AJc, AKc, 3 combos of 10s and Qs, maybe 4s and 2s, we are deep enough for that. Regardless of if you want to include 2s and 4s, it's really thin for value. I don't think checking is a bad line, but I think betting is better.

    *hero is on the button, so more Flushes are available , but I still don't think we are betting enough combos if we are checking overpairs
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here are the key questions for me:
    1) If I just turned my hand into a bluffcatcher, why would I ever bet the turn?
    2) If I don't want to bluff catch, why I am just calling on the flop?
    3) If I want to turn my hand into a flush draw, is this the hand I want to choose?
  • SuessSuess Red Chipper Posts: 84 ✭✭
    persuadeo wrote: »
    Here are the key questions for me:
    1) If I just turned my hand into a bluffcatcher, why would I ever bet the turn?
    2) If I don't want to bluff catch, why I am just calling on the flop?
    3) If I want to turn my hand into a flush draw, is this the hand I want to choose?

    These are great questions. I agree with your first one--we wouldn't bet with just a bluff catcher. However, I think that if we just wanted to bluff catch, it makes sense to just call the flop. With a bluff catcher we wouldn't reraise or fold the flop. This isn't the hand I would choose to turn into a flush draw/made flush as it has too much showdown value.
  • FilthyCasualFilthyCasual Red Chipper Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    persuadeo wrote: »
    2) If I don't want to bluff catch, why I am just calling on the flop?

    After the villain CR to 90, what are we folding out that we are ahead of or getting to call that's behind if we reraise?

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