2/5 NL KQo vs. small raise, multiway

JesseJesse Red Chipper Posts: 134 ✭✭
2/5 NL Hustler, Tuesday night

Reads:
Seat9 is an older guy, seems to be willing to gamble. Missed his BB earlier, and has now posted in mid position. ~$200 stack

Seat1 is a 1/2 asian guy in his late 20's early 30's. Seems to open wide pre and gets lost postflop. Seat2 has been peppering him with small bets in position with good results, as Seat1 tends to call down and fold to a small bet on the river. Doesn't value bet decent 1 pair hands on the river, tends to c-bet once and give up with air. ~$200 stack, in the CO.

Seat2 older white guy, somewhat on the loose-aggro side, tends to bet often, but significantly smaller than most players (1/2 pot or less is somewhat typical). Saw him flat KK vs. a $20 iso-raise from seat1 earlier. As mentioned, has been playing pots vs. Seat1 and crushing him. $1k+ stack. On the button. Seems to act faster when his decision is obvious.

Me - seat 5 in the BB this hand, $250 stack, fairly tight image. Asian guy mid 30's.

Folded to S9 who raises to $15 from his post. S1 and S2 call. I call with :Kd :Qh

4-ways, $60
Flop: :Kc :Tc :6s

I check, S9 checks, S1 bets $30, S2 thinks and calls...

1. 3-bet preflop to $75?
2. Ship this flop?

Comments

  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,327 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think shoving it in on the flop is the only reasonable play here. It's more or less right at a pot sized reraise.

    Preflop, it's kind of an awkward situation. I think you could make a case for doing any of fold, call, or raise to $75. The problem with raising is if you get a call - even if you get heads up, your stack size is a little awkward for the situation. There's going to be $185 in the pot and you only have $125 behind - even a shove on any flop looks kinda desperate.
  • FilthyCasualFilthyCasual Red Chipper Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2016
    1) I like the squeeze as a 3 bet bluff better than the flat(but I'm likely folding pre), even if it just gets seat 9 to fold. Only thing is, we probably just have to rip it most flops and continue to overrep our hand

    2)If we ship flop:
    Is KJ going to call?
    Is AK going to Call?
    I guess we clean up equity against lower clubs, and with the SPR in the 4 way pot we need to commit or ditch now, but seems like a not-so-great spot. We've had a donk lead, a call, and it's on us with the preflop raiser yet to act. Gross....
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,327 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah I mean everything is awkward, but the wet board means we'll be getting calls from worse hands. However if you're folding here, then it's also a fold preflop.
  • FilthyCasualFilthyCasual Red Chipper Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    jeffnc wrote: »
    Yeah I mean everything is awkward, but the wet board means we'll be getting calls from worse hands. However if you're folding here, then it's also a fold preflop.

    I get some FD are going to be calling, but I really don't see OESD calling this overbet on the flop. I haven't had my coffee yet, so I could be missing something, but I'd see an OESD calling a halfpot bet maybe
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Three bet this hand pre against that opener and his spot.
  • Wiki_LeaksWiki_Leaks Red Chipper Posts: 558 ✭✭✭
    Whats the buyin limit for this game?

    This looks like a value squeeze to me. You have a gambler opening from MP, a loose raiser who just calls, and a second caller on the button.

    As played you flopped it. Kx never folds. Clubs never fold. Qj never folds. Hell, Ac(J/Q)x probably doesnt fold. Tx might not fold. Ship it.
  • JesseJesse Red Chipper Posts: 134 ✭✭
    @-ev preflop raiser checked

    Buyin is 100-300 for this game. Next level is the 300-1000 5-5 game but I'm not ready for that yet.

  • GabeyJGabeyJ Red Chipper Posts: 436 ✭✭✭
    Wait so this 2/5 game doesn't even let you buy in for 100bb?
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,327 ✭✭✭✭✭
    persuadeo wrote: »
    Three bet this hand pre against that opener and his spot.

    OK, so plan if:
    a) someone 4-bets?
    b) you get 1 caller?
    c) you get 2 callers?

  • FilthyCasualFilthyCasual Red Chipper Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    Jesse wrote: »
    @-ev preflop raiser checked

    Buyin is 100-300 for this game. Next level is the 300-1000 5-5 game but I'm not ready for that yet.

    Okay. Had a hard time translating from Seat to position and back. Not entirely sure why, just used to reading hands solely by position
  • SullySully Red Chipper Posts: 726 ✭✭✭
    I would 3-bet to $75. Looks like a great squeeze spot with these villains and the action

    fold to a 4-bet
    1 or 2 callers doesn't matter much. SPR dictates the rest of the hand

    On this flop, I jam. I could see a case for trying to induce and/or protect a CR range but I just don't want a check back from a hand that has decent equity that might have called
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Depends who does what. If loose gambley guy in seat one rips it in, and everyone folds, I get it in with him, 100%. We have blockers to what we fear from seat two, but if he back raises all in, it's an easy fold because we're drawing slim. Seat one rates to have a weak hand that will do better multiway.

    We're playing 40 bb cash game poker here vs. the opener, let's not make this too hard.

    I get it, calling pre being offered a great price is ok, too, not going to take this too far, but the spr once we do doesn't leave us much wiggle room at all; that's why, as you say, there's nothing to do left but shove, which puts OP in a potentially worse spot than we would have been if he just 3 bet in the first place. This is showdown poker with these stacks, pure and simple, and I'd advise shutting people out from their showdown and/or isolating as better strategy than taking flops and getting into messes out of position with hands that rate to make one pair or miss.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,327 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah, I'm not saying calling is very good, I was just saying that if you call and then hit top pair you have to get it in. The more awkward spot is if you 3-bet, just get called, whiff the flop, and then have to shove $125 into $190 or whatever, and that just seems like a pretty iffy spot to be in.
  • JesseJesse Red Chipper Posts: 134 ✭✭
    I do have a reluctance toward 3betting as a bluff/thin value in this game. Earlier in the month I got a good run of legit 3bet hands and never had trouble getting action 3betting to $75 with <$300 stacks.

    It's rare for a 3bet to be uncalled. I'd imagine if I went that line I'd be open shoving with missed overs a lot.

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