Steal the money 1/2

DocRueDocRue Red Chipper Posts: 30 ✭✭
Ok here goes. I am at a 1/2 local casino. Buy in is 40-100. 2 hands earlier i got caught bluffing villian with k-10 off on a 73445 board. He had 87 off suit. I check flop then fired turn and river. This hand i am big blind and there is a 4 dollar straddle with player having 11 chips and tilting. EP player calls, 2 MPs call and villian calls from button. I min raise to 8 with 33 hoping straddle goes all in. Straddle goes all in for 11 everyone calls and the biggest stack is villian, with 130 which i cover the other players have about 60-80. I raise 65 more. Every one folds to V. Which says i hate folding these hand, takes about 2 minutes and says fine all in, I insta call. He shows AQo and i win. Should I have raised to 65 or just called? One player said he folded AJo and I believe him.

Comments

  • SplitSuitSplitSuit RCP Coach Posts: 3,900 -
    You created a really bad situation for yourself unfortunately. With 33 you don't want to make the min-raise to $8 because it doesn't accomplish anything. You are never getting everyone to fold and will often end up getting a MW pot where your 33 performs poorly in a shallow.

    And even in a best-case scenario where you showhow end up against JUST the short stack - you have to show your hand AND villain pretty much always has a flip.
    My latest poker course brings the popular book 'Poker's 1%' to life- The One Percent
  • FilthyCasualFilthyCasual Red Chipper Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2016
    SplitSuit wrote: »
    You created a really bad situation for yourself unfortunately. With 33 you don't want to make the min-raise to $8 because it doesn't accomplish anything. You are never getting everyone to fold and will often end up getting a MW pot where your 33 performs poorly in a shallow.

    And even in a best-case scenario where you showhow end up against JUST the short stack - you have to show your hand AND villain pretty much always has a flip.

    With only being able to buy in for 50 BBs, are small pocket pairs profitable to play? If hero and a few villains chip up a bit, sure, but at 1-2 it seems thin at best, but than their is the straddle and it goes from thin to not profitable to me
  • DocRueDocRue Red Chipper Posts: 30 ✭✭
    I only raised to eight hoping the straddle would move all in and then when it got back to me I could bet 65 into a 63 pot and everyone would fold. The part of the plan that didn't work was the everyone fold part. It was probably not the best hand to try this move with I see. Thanks for the comments.
  • JesseJesse Red Chipper Posts: 134 ✭✭
    How did you raise to $8 (a $4 raise) and someone jam all in for $11 (a $3 reraise) and then have the dealer allow you to reopen action? This should have been against the rules.
  • DocRueDocRue Red Chipper Posts: 30 ✭✭
    Where I play as long as the all in was at least half the bet size, then the action is reopened. since I raised $4 as long as his all in is at least $10 i.e. $2 raise then anyone could reraise. You are right, as most of the players do not know this rule where I play and the 3 players that folded, did argue with the dealer that I was not allowed to do it. The dealer explained to them that I could. The players were not happy. I am a strong believer in knowing your casinos rules.
  • JesseJesse Red Chipper Posts: 134 ✭✭
    Martin wrote: »
    Where I play as long as the all in was at least half the bet size, then the action is reopened. since I raised $4 as long as his all in is at least $10 i.e. $2 raise then anyone could reraise. You are right, as most of the players do not know this rule where I play and the 3 players that folded, did argue with the dealer that I was not allowed to do it. The dealer explained to them that I could. The players were not happy. I am a strong believer in knowing your casinos rules.

    Wow, I find that rule somewhat unusual. Perhaps it's a distortion of a limit holdem rule applied to no limit.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2016
    I've seen that rule in places before. My understanding of the hand is that shorty actually started the hand with $15. It's better not to say he had "11 chips", but rather state how many dollars he had before and after the straddle :-)

    Most people will tell you that minraising is terrible here. You reopen the betting to someone who might legitimately reraise a hand you can't call with, and the stacks are too small to be setmining at the minraise size. However, also see this thread for another perspective, which might or might not apply even if true.
    http://forum.redchippoker.com/discussion/2890/the-set-mining-multiplier-again-probably#latest

    So the questions are:
    - will shorty shove?
    - when you reraise, how many people will call?
    - how well does your hand stand up to the hands you'll face? (you'll face 1 at a minimum)

    I think if you add all that up, it does not look good for your play. Too much of a parlay, and 33 is simply not a very good hand against any random hand, let alone ranges that might call (as soon as you add pocket pairs to your opponents ranges, your equity goes below 50%).

    On the other hand, calling is a very solid situation. You're getting 9:1 immediate odds, with plenty of money behind in implied odds to justify the $2. If shorty shoves, then most likely most if not everyone will call, again giving you approximately 6:1 again. At these immediate odds, there doesn't have to be a whole lot of money behind to justify a call. However that doesn't mean that you prefer the $11 raise. You would prefer the better immediate odds and better implied odds with the original bet size.

  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    -ev wrote: »
    With only being able to buy in for 50 BBs, are small pocket pairs profitable to play?

    Most "setmining multiplier" advice relates to being heads up. Being in a 5-way hand changes things, and I'm always willing to accept smaller stacks in this situation, simply because of the much improved immediate odds, which approach the actual odds of flopping a set. At that price, you only need a little extra in implied odds to make up for the times you flop a set and lose.

  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2016
    As an extreme example, let's say you're in the big blind with 33 in a $1/2 game. Everyone has $10. UTG shoves for $10 and everyone calls with random hands. You should call because your equity is 12% and you're putting in 8% of the money. (If everyone has better than random hands, then your equity is slightly improved to about 15%*, probably.)

    So the "setmining multiplier" is only about 1:1, which is ridiculously low, and yet even with 0 implied odds, you should still call. Granted this is a heavily multiway situation, so traditional setmining advice doesn't apply.

    *A range of about 65% hands: 22+,A2s+,K2s+,Q3s+,J3s+,T6s+,96s+,84s+,74s+,63s+,53s+,43s,32s,A2o+,K4o+,Q5o+,J5o+,T6o+,97o+,86o+,75o+,64o+,54o

    A range of about 50% hands gives about 14% equity.

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