Out of my element

dirty moosedirty moose Red Chipper Posts: 482 ✭✭✭
edited February 2016 in Online Poker Hands
I don't play on-line. I threw a few bucks on there to pass the time and to see some hands.
ARC $25NL

I've been a bit active 3-betting at this table. I just 3-bet the villain a hand earlier. No other reads.
Hero is on the button with :Qd :Qh

MP3: $26.91 (107.6 bb)
CO: $7.78 (31.1 bb)
Hero (BTN): $26.50 (106 bb)
SB: $16.45 (65.8 bb)
BB: $12.42 (49.7 bb)
UTG+1: $28.74 (115 bb)
UTG+2: $25 (100 bb)
MP1: $8.64 (34.6 bb)
MP2: $40.76 (163 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with Q:heart: Q:club:
UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 raises to $0.75, 4 folds, Hero raises to $2.50, 2 folds, UTG+2 raises to $6, Hero calls $3.50

Flop: ($12.35) :8d :4s :5s (2 players)
UTG+2 bets $8

Hero?

Comments

  • ElandraelElandrael Red Chipper Posts: 23
    edited February 2016
    At a full ring online, you must respect early raises a 4bet usualy means a very strong range. Without knowing the VILLAIN I would assume a 4bet UTG+2 is minimum AKs.

    I call once and play from there. If he shoves the turn, I may strongly think to fold.
  • FilthyCasualFilthyCasual Red Chipper Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2016
    Pretty bluff catcher!

    People that are multitabling are more incentivized to drop weaker holdings in EP, so I also get the idea that this is a nutted range
  • shaneshane Red Chipper Posts: 35 ✭✭
    edited February 2016
    Elandrael wrote: »
    At a full ring online, you must respect early raises a 4bet usualy means a very strong range. Without knowing the VILLAIN I would assume a 4bet UTG+2 is minimum AKs.

    I call once and play from there. If he shoves the turn, I may strongly think to fold.

    I agree with Elandrael.

    I would slow down here and just call to cut off the action. An argument could be made for a strong pot bet here but with the villains aggressiveness the whole way they may have AA / KK but I think AKs is very likely here. Just call and hope the turn and river are kind. If a A / K or any spade comes I'm folding.
  • nickyblindsnickyblinds Red Chipper Posts: 33 ✭✭
    Maybe my thought process is wrong but with a SPR less than two I feel I'm committed to the pot. Even giving villain a tight range of JJ+, AK , according to equilab, your basically a coin flip pre and post flop. Expand the range to 88+,AQs+,AKo, and your equity goes up to about 60%. Add in any fold equity against AK, AQ type hands I think its an easy shove. With the raise to 2.50 your already committing 10% of the eff stack. with the 4 bet to 6 I think you have to decide preflop whether to call with the idea to stack off or just fold pre. Also you said you have been "active" 3 betting which should give you a loose perceived range which would in turn induce a wider range to 4 bet you. I hope my thoughts are clear. Curious to hear what others think
  • ElandraelElandrael Red Chipper Posts: 23
    Hello Nickyblinds,

    The initial raiser is UTG+2 ... I don't think VILLAIN's range is JJ+, AK on a 4bet pot.

    Without more information on VILLAIN, he is more on a QQ+, AK range IMHO, which make us a underdog with 40% equity, if you remove AKo it's a lot worth we only have 28.5% equity.

    QQ is a pretty hand, but not facing a 4bet from early position on a fullring game. I think that we would need more info on VILLAIN to be ok with thinking of stacking off in that spot.
  • dirty moosedirty moose Red Chipper Posts: 482 ✭✭✭
    Thank you guys for all your responses. Apperantly I need to relocate the fold button both live and on line.

    In retrospect his $8 bet into a $12 pot is a large bet. Big bet after a 4 bet pre usually means business.

    Like the donkey I am, I shipped it and he snapped with Kk and I revered a Q.
    About the only run good I've had in a while.

    Thanks for the responses.
    Matt
  • FilthyCasualFilthyCasual Red Chipper Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    Thank you guys for all your responses. Apperantly I need to relocate the fold button both live and on line.
    Not saying I would have made this fold by any means, but looking at it just seems like we are beat.
    With the spr, as @nickyblinds mentioned, I don't think you should beat yourself up too much. Not sure if ACR does any kind of Stat tracking, but I'm thinking I could find a justification to call such as villain was just attacking the button or something. If the villain can ever be bluffing, it can't be that bad either.
  • nickyblindsnickyblinds Red Chipper Posts: 33 ✭✭
    Does the villains 4 bet range always have to be that tight?
  • nickyblindsnickyblinds Red Chipper Posts: 33 ✭✭
    Is it possible he 4bets 88 99 AQ etc to take down the pot pre? I play mostly 6max but still. QQ+,AK just seems to tight without any other info.
  • ElandraelElandrael Red Chipper Posts: 23
    Does the villains 4 bet range always have to be that tight?

    No.
    Elandrael wrote:
    At a full ring online, you must respect early raises a 4bet usualy means a very strong range. Without knowing the VILLAIN I would assume a 4bet UTG+2 is minimum AKs.

    We don't have more info on the player. As a starting point and until you are proven wrong you have to think your opponent is straight forward.
  • ElandraelElandrael Red Chipper Posts: 23
    Is it possible he 4bets 88 99 AQ etc to take down the pot pre? I play mostly 6max but still. QQ+,AK just seems to tight without any other info.

    You are right, in 6 max ranges are different, and the meta kicks in more quickly do to the format.

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