Unsure where I messed up

Just4funziesJust4funzies Red Chipper Posts: 8
IPoker, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $10.16 (203.2 bb)
BB: $1.68 (33.6 bb)
MP: $11.91 (238.2 bb)
Hero (CO): $9.70 (194 bb)
BTN: $6.53 (130.6 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Jdiamond4.gif Tdiamond4.gif
MP raises to $0.17, Hero calls $0.17, BTN raises to $0.64, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.47

Flop: ($1.52) 6diamond4.gif 5diamond4.gif 8spade4.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.97, Hero calls $0.97

Turn: ($3.46) 8club4.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $2.32, Hero raises to $8.09 and is all-in, BTN calls $2.60

River: ($13.30) Qclub4.gif (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results: $13.30 pot ($0.66 rake)
Final Board: 6diamond4.gif 5diamond4.gif 8spade4.gif 8club4.gif Qclub4.gif
Hero mucked Jdiamond4.gif Tdiamond4.gif and lost (-$6.53 net)
BTN showed Aheart4.gif Kspade4.gif and won $12.64 ($6.11 net)

BTN was a VP20/PF18/3-bet15.4 over 41 hands

He came in being fairly aggro. I think I should have folded preflop but also think jamming the turn to get folds is a little to far fetched at nl5.

In fishier games " It's not about making moves, it's about making hands"
Mike Gano.


  • Rello242Rello242 Red Chipper Posts: 595 ✭✭
    I prefer to see a fold preflop for sure. The button isn't deep enough to really be expanding your range.

    It looks like from the quote you made at the bottom, you know exactly what you have to do, so then I would encourage you to talk to yourself more before just clicking.

    The questions here is "What hands can he have?" "What hands should fold to my shove" "Why would he fold those hands that should fold? Am I representing anything strong?"

    & Just before you click that button ask yourself this last question: "How likely would he just look at his card and just call just because"

    I think you know exactly what you have to do, and yes we can sit here and have a nice discussion to reassure your motives but you have to find a way to do that yourself when it matters the most, and that's on the table.


    "Its better to give than to receive, so bet more and call less"
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  • The MuleThe Mule Red Chipper Posts: 790 ✭✭✭
    Agree with everything Rello said.

    One thing to add - villain is getting about 4:1 on the call. If he thinks there's the slightest chance you might be bluffing, he'll call. And in this case, AK is not really much worse than an overpair vs your range - they'll both beat most of your bluffs, and lose to the hands you're representing.
  • NikosNikos Red Chipper Posts: 117
    edited February 2016
    I'd agree with folding pre as a default, but i don't mind this call either at least some of the time. However if you're going for the call then i think you should be more aggressive with your flopped draw and go with a x/r.

    Not entirely sure what range you'd be repping tho.. flatting both the open-raise from the mp and the oop 3-bet from the btn.. another point for folding i guess..

    How about 3-betting this pre yourself? I think i would light 3bet this from late position occasionally. Of course you'd fold to the 4-bet here but just a thought..
  • shaneshane Red Chipper Posts: 35 ✭✭
    I like the call and cutting off the action pre turn. But it got too expensive on the river and probably should have folded to the villain. Another alternative action would be to 3B instead of calling or pushing depending on your read of the villain. Then get out of the way if you don't hit. His VPIP 20 puts him pretty honest with his holding, something strong for the flops texture. Rello's advice is spot on IMO. Practice asking yourself those questions at every action.
  • SprinklePonySprinklePony Red Chipper Posts: 75
    A agree with Rello: don't call 3bets OOP unless deeper, OR unless you have some solid reads on your opponent that you can exploit easily, reliably, and often enough.

    I do like making moves in fishier games, they are just different moves than I would make vs more solid opponents. I love isolating (my isolating range is wider than my open-raise range ... not sure about this, realized it only recently and plan to investigate). Anyway, back on topic =P

    I love the questions that Rello suggests asking yourself! You're really repping a boat+, trips, maybe a slowplayed overpair, or a draw (a lot of players at these stakes on WSOP.com Nevada wouldn't play a draw this way though; higher limits though, sure). I'd add in the question of "is my opponent putting me on a range, ie, is she even aware of what I'm repping?" In this case, it's prob 50/50. At these limits I tend to find that a lot of players aren't really thinking all that deep. They may consider what you can have at times, but repping a set etc has rarely worked for me against fishy players, they just don't get it.

    The check/raise on the turn isn't bad at all, especially if you know your opponent likes to double barrel, although I think a check/raise shove on the flop would've been even better. For one thing, you get to maximize your equity with your flush draw, overcards, and even the backdoor gutshot. Another reason is that by the turn, your check/raise is so small compared to the pot that many hands will call ... why AK called here, hard to say. Could be, similar to what colldav said, one of those players who figures that it's only 2.60 more into a 10.60 pot and he could spike his A or K (not getting odds, but unless this player has a pretty golden read on you, its clearly a bad call on his part and I doubt he is really thinking about things like odds). I was going to say to make a note of that, this way you know you can check/raise the turn for value against this player, and also note that he may feel 'pot-committed' in such a spot, then over time adjust those reads .... but its Bovada ... still something to note if you were to see such a thing live or on another site.

    I don't like for a 4bet backraise bluff here (am I using that term right, pretty sure I am ...). In doing that you are repping a big pocket pair and perhaps AK, but I don't give players at these limits, without info, enough credit to really see that, or care. Plus, as BalugaWhale's material has taught me: players are 3betting tighter than you think, so you aren't getting enough folds IMO. That said, JTs doesn't seem like a bad hand to pull this bluff with, although it seems to me that an Axs or Kxs hand would be even better ... really not sure though as I have rarely ever made this play, and so haven't really thought about or analyzed it much, although I will be giving it some thought now!
  • Just4funziesJust4funzies Red Chipper Posts: 8
    Thanks for all the comments,
    After thinking about it for awhile i do relize i find myself "clicking buttons" and thats a leak i will correct by continuing to ask myself why i am making certain actions.

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