Cheap bluff or getting milked ?

The MuleThe Mule Red Chipper Posts: 779 ✭✭✭
This hand came up the other day playing NL10 on 888. Interested in people's thoughts on the decisions of each street.

Not much info on UTG. He is multi tabling, so I assume is a reg. He's 16/10 over 64 hands, has done nothing memorable.

BTN is a fish. Limps, calls too much pre flop, plays fit or fold post flop. Doesn't seem to bluff.

Cassava Poker $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players - View hand 2860235
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (MP2): $8.41
CO: $11.44
BTN: $5.52
SB: $10.20
BB: $10.85
UTG: $10.67
UTG+1: $11.45
MP1: $5.00

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is MP2 with K :heart: K :diamond:
UTG raises to $0.30, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.90, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.90, 2 folds, UTG raises to $3.10, Hero calls $2.20, 1 fold

F**k I hate getting 4-bet here. 4-bets generally mean business in these games, particularly from UTG. I put UTG on QQ+, AK, discounting the QQ. I seriously consider folding.

I just called the 4 bet with the hope the button would call too. My 4-bet calling range in this situation consists of KK, AA and AK, folding everything else. Plan was to get it in post flop on any board without an ace.

Flop: ($7.25) A :diamond: 5 :club: T :club: (2 players)
UTG bets $1.10, Hero calls $1.10

When he bets $1.10 into $7.25, I think I have to call in case he is taking a stab with QQ. I assume he'll shut down on turn if that's the case.

Turn: ($9.45) 7 :diamond: (2 players)
UTG bets $2.10, Hero folds

I sent the message on the flop I'm not folding to a small bet so now it looks to me like he is trying to get me to put the rest of my stack in with a hand like KK... I fold.

Also interested in any thoughts on villain's line.



  • shaneshane Red Chipper Posts: 35 ✭✭
    Preflop instead of calling the $3.10 I would have pushed.

    I understand your thinking, you want to see if an Ace spikes on the flop. I wouldn't be afraid of that situation. Based on your stack size ($5.31 behind) after villains 3 bet just shove. Your not folding Kings and you won't have enough to bet villain off his hand on any other street. IMO shoving there would be your best play.

    I'm not sure why you would want the button to call? Big pairs play better with few players. You want to isolate the villain.

    I'm willing to play aggressive with KK, AA because you will win most of the time. So get your chips in.

    It looks like you did save $4.21 as all your fears came to be you were probably beat.

    The Ace spiked on the flop but you still called the villain, that was your biggest fear. This is were you could have folded. Stick to your preflop plan and trust your reads.

  • shaneshane Red Chipper Posts: 35 ✭✭
    edited February 2016
    Here is an example of why you shouldn't be so afraid of an Ace hitting the board.

    I played my Kings aggressively trying to isolate preflop. Once I was heads up I wanted to maximize my winnings and hope the cards go my way. This is one example when it didn't. My preflop read of the villain was a solid aggressive. It didn't matter much I wanted control and I had the cards and position to back my play.

    I have a few where my strategy does work and I win. I wanted to show you the Ace doesn't always hit the other player.
  • The MuleThe Mule Red Chipper Posts: 779 ✭✭✭
    Thanks Shane.

    Just to clarify a point from your email, I was calling a 4-bet (not a 3-bet) from UTG. If I raised KK and got 3-bet, I would generally shove as you suggest.

    My thinking regarding the fish was that either he has an ace or he doesn't. If he has an ace, my plan still works, even better if my opponents are sharing outs. If he doesn't have an ace, I'm crushing him. I expect the extra 50% in pot size more than compensates for the small reduction in equity.

    I know we generally don't want to go multiway with hands like TT-QQ. I've seen discussion about going multiway with AA, I am in the camp of I would be happy to be multiway all-in pre-flop/low SPR. With an SPR of ~0.5, I think I am happy to go multiway with KK. Not sure if this is correct.

  • ElandraelElandrael Red Chipper Posts: 23
    Hello colldav,

    I was curious to know how much equity change it would be HU vs multiway. I did define 1 strong range we are against, and a more gambling one.

    Ranges & Equity of KK multiway
    (Eq 46%) HERO => KK
    (Eq 34%) VILLAIN 1 => QQ+,AKs,AKo
    (Eq 20%) VILLAIN 2 => 22+,AQs+,A5s-A2s,JTs,T9s,65s,54s,AQo+

    Ranges & Equity of KK going HU against a strong range of 4bet
    (Eq 57%) HERO => KK
    (Eq 43%) VILLAIN 1 => QQ+,AKs,AKo

    If you remove AKo from his range, it's a (Eq of 52%).

    If button had more than 55BB I m not sure the 22BB ($2.2) added to the pot would compensate an increase of 11% overall risk because you are in between VILLAINS and it's a harder spot than by closing the action.

    Considering stack sizes, I can agree with your argument on that precise situation. If VILLAIN on the button had a bigger stack, I think shoving is better.

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