PLO8 sb 3bet

zagaresezagarese Red Chipper Posts: 200 ✭✭
Poker Stars $0.01/$0.02 Pot Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 6 players - View hand 2866126
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

MP: $1.87
CO: $4.82
BTN: $2.16
SB: $2.66
BB: $1.69
Hero (UTG): $0.89

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is UTG with 2heart.gif 7club.gif 6spade.gif Aclub.gif
Hero raises to $0.07, 3 folds, SB raises to $0.23, 1 fold,

Hero ?

Villian is 75/32 over 130 hands with a 3bet % of 12.2

Comments

  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 1,943 -
    Just call. I would tend to limp in with this hand in the first place to maintain stack depth.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • SplitSuitSplitSuit RCP Coach Posts: 3,976 -
    No FE by jamming...so just call and go from there.
  • zagaresezagarese Red Chipper Posts: 200 ✭✭
    Kat, Suit

    Are your decisions influenced by the stats?

    I posted this hand because my raise is pretty much a steal and if a tighter player had 3bet me I would have folded.

    But in-game I noticed the 3bet stat and thought that maybe a call was better.

    But I'm curious about your reasoning for calling vs. folding.

    Never consider jamming.

    And wouldn't ever limp UTG with this. Would fold or raise.

    Although "wouldn't ever" is problably not GTO :)
  • SplitSuitSplitSuit RCP Coach Posts: 3,976 -
    zagarese wrote: »
    Kat, Suit

    Are your decisions influenced by the stats?

    The price heavily influences things. Suited A2 plus a safety card and a possible two way hand has lots of equity. Hell, vs AAJ5 with a suit you have 40% equity and vs AAJ2 with a suit you have 38% equity. Vs junky hands you have some more...
    zagarese wrote: »
    And wouldn't ever limp UTG with this. Would fold or raise.

    Although "wouldn't ever" is problably not GTO :)

    Limping is a great tool to have in PLO/PLO8. It's not like NL where limping (open-limping especially) is frowned upon...in PLO/PLO8 games it's more common to limp hands you want to see a flop with (like meh A2 in PLO8 or ugly KKxx in PLO) but don't want to raise with.
  • zagaresezagarese Red Chipper Posts: 200 ✭✭
    SplitSuit wrote: »
    zagarese wrote: »
    Kat, Suit

    Are your decisions influenced by the stats?

    The price heavily influences things.

    The price? Not so much the 12.2 % 3bet stat? I just want to be clear.

    Equilab shows 12.2% vs this exact hand to be 55.2%/44.7%

    BUT

    I'm not really sure I understand what the 3bet stat in HM2 expresses. I read it as 12.2% of hands. Is it that or is it 12.2% of opportunities to 3bet?

    Do you call if his 3bet stat is 3% (just the AA hands) which equilab shows to be 59.1%/40.9%?





  • zagaresezagarese Red Chipper Posts: 200 ✭✭
    SplitSuit wrote: »
    Limping is a great tool to have in PLO/PLO8. It's not like NL where limping (open-limping especially) is frowned upon...in PLO/PLO8 games it's more common to limp hands you want to see a flop with (like meh A2 in PLO8 or ugly KKxx in PLO) but don't want to raise with.

    I'm not sure I agree with this in big bet games in general.

    Although apparently the current trend (rage?) is to develop a limping range UTG, on the BTN, etc in holdem tournaments.

    I feel like I need to protect my AAxx hands by raising this (and other) hands in the same spot.

    At the same time this might be a function of playing in the micros where almost everyone else only raises AAxx.

  • SplitSuitSplitSuit RCP Coach Posts: 3,976 -
    zagarese wrote: »
    The price? Not so much the 12.2 % 3bet stat? I just want to be clear.

    Equilab shows 12.2% vs this exact hand to be 55.2%/44.7%

    BUT

    I'm not really sure I understand what the 3bet stat in HM2 expresses. I read it as 12.2% of hands. Is it that or is it 12.2% of opportunities to 3bet?

    Do you call if his 3bet stat is 3% (just the AA hands) which equilab shows to be 59.1%/40.9%?

    The 3bet stat lets you know how often they pulled the trigger and 3bet when given the chance...not necessarily that he actually uses a deploarized 12% range of hands here.

    And yes, I still call if he has a 3% 3bet - and call often unless his 3bet range is like exclusively AA2x. The plan being to stack off on most boards except the QT8r variety given the SPR. It's PL so at worst you are getting 2:1 and only need 33% equity to continue...

    As for limping, I understand where you are coming from...but limping has tons of validity in these games. Do you really want to raise AAJ7 from EP? Do you really want to raise KK62 from MP1? It's PL...so even when you limp and get isolated you give off very little info about your range AND they can't make your life hell since their raise sizes are capped by the size of the pot so you can limp/call and leave tons of room rather than raise-face a 3bet-and have very little room postflop.
  • zagaresezagarese Red Chipper Posts: 200 ✭✭
    SplitSuit wrote: »

    As for limping, I understand where you are coming from...but limping has tons of validity in these games. Do you really want to raise AAJ7 from EP? Do you really want to raise KK62 from MP1? It's PL...so even when you limp and get isolated you give off very little info about your range AND they can't make your life hell since their raise sizes are capped by the size of the pot so you can

    Well, yes. If I was playing those hands I would raise or fold there for the most spot at a 6 max table.

    I don't completely disagree with limping but if I was limping there I would limp everything. I do that a lot HU. I don't tend to do that 6-max. I might do that if I had an aggressive player to my left that was raising a ton. Limp-call my entire range.

    Do you/would you employ limps the same way in Pot Limit hold'em?

  • SplitSuitSplitSuit RCP Coach Posts: 3,976 -
    zagarese wrote: »
    Do you/would you employ limps the same way in Pot Limit hold'em?

    No. Holdem is very different and equities run far different than they do in Omaha.
  • zagaresezagarese Red Chipper Posts: 200 ✭✭
  • SplitSuitSplitSuit RCP Coach Posts: 3,976 -
    zagarese wrote: »
    Thank you.

    NP =)
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 1,943 -
    I mostly have the same rationale as James on this, although I differ on "meh A2 hands." Unless a 6-max game is extremely tough (in which case I'm not in it) I'm going to play even the junkiest A2 hands for at least the minimum, but something like A27J rbw I'm more likely to raise as a steal attempt or to get HU IP against one of the blinds. In isolation I'm not sure this is the best play, but it confuses anyone paying attention. If I limp with something like that from up front I'm likely to be playing a one-way hand OOP and get seriously lost post-flop.

    Having a suited ace A2 makes me more likely to limp because I have the classic plo8 2-way prospects and don't mind playing it multiway. In fact if I raise and game texture is such that it's quite likely I'll be heads-up OOP. I prefer to be multiway OOP because the actions of others are much easier to read. Throw in something like A2JKss and similar as raising hands and limp the wheel hands like A23x ss and PFR% will be such that your raises will be ambiguous and not limited to AA2/AA3. Additionally, as Hwang has pointed out, unlike PLO your opponents can't take flops with a huge range against AA2x hoping to crack you when they know half your hand because you're bidirectional. Coming after to you with PLO ace-crackers is absolute suicide.

    I should mention I'm somewhat out-of-touch with current plo8 theory since I've played it a lot less since Black Friday, so it's possible plays that used to be "a matter of style" are now known to be good or bad. But I'm pretty sure pre-flop limping is still a viable and likely preferred element of a complete pre-flop strategy.

    Final suggestion: stay topped up unless you're working a specific Clements-esque strategy to create a loose image.

    Cheers ~ Kat
    Moderation In Moderation
  • zagaresezagarese Red Chipper Posts: 200 ✭✭
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    Final suggestion: stay topped up unless you're working a specific Clements-esque strategy to create a loose image.
    Cheers ~ Kat

    Kat

    Thank you for all your input.

    That was me completely topped up on stars that day :)

    Clements-esque means Scott Clements?
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 1,943 -
    Yeah Scott used to be an instructor at another place and along with Jeff Hwang heavily influenced how I play all Omaha variants
    Moderation In Moderation

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