should i have folded

BulldogBulldog Red Chipper Posts: 1
1-2$ NL in my local casino last night. I was on the button with KQ suited, had 4 limpers to me Pre-flop and raised to 12. All 4 called, flop came K57 rainbow and all checked to me. I bet 35 into 50.00 pot, got 1 caller. Turn was a K and villain checked to me I bet 55.00 and villain raised to 110.00. I shoved, he called and showed K5 for the boat and busted me. This villain would call pre-flop with any high card queen or better in his hand, suited or unsuited connectors pairs, any high cards j-10 or better, and pairs 22-AA. Also, he would chase any straight draw or flush draw to any bet. After thinking this through I think I should have folded, the big reraise on the turn in 1-2 often means a monster hand and with no draws on the board I should have put him on a boat. Also this villain was very lose pre-flop and on the flop, but had not been aggressive, mostly would just call bets. This information to go with a check raise I feel should have been a clear sign to fold. Do you agree? or would a fold here been to tight?

Comments

  • FilthyCasualFilthyCasual Red Chipper Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    I think after 4 limpers, raising to 12 is solely going to inflate the pot and hardly generate many folds, which leads to the turn issue and the construction of this smaller SPR.

    It is extremely likely you are beat, min raise at 1-2 is hardly ever a bluff. W
  • FilthyCasualFilthyCasual Red Chipper Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    How much was the shove over the top of the min raise for? I want to say with what I'd imagine the SPR being, it might not be really too bad of a call or shove, unless you are somewhat unnaturally deep stacked for a 1-2 game
  • SplitSuitSplitSuit RCP Coach Posts: 4,082 -
    Preflop needs to be closer to $20. Let's punish players rather than giving them great prices and creating a million-way pot =)
    📑 Grab my custom poker spreadsheet pack right now.
    📘 Start the Preflop & Math Poker Workbook today.
  • JesseJesse Red Chipper Posts: 134 ✭✭
    How much was the shove over the top of the min raise for? I want to say with what I'd imagine the SPR being, it might not be really too bad of a call or shove, unless you are somewhat unnaturally deep stacked for a 1-2 game

    Yeah, it's entirely possible he has KJ-K6 and not just boats, right?
  • FilthyCasualFilthyCasual Red Chipper Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    Jesse wrote: »
    Yeah, it's entirely possible he has KJ-K6 and not just boats, right?
    Possible, but a $50 pot going to the flop at 1-2 generally means that the SPR can't be too large(4-5 SPR at most would be my guess at most 1-2 games) You'd have to be extremely certain to fold trips with this small of an SPR when you get to turn is moreso my line of thinking here than being ahead a lot. There are times we are good here, Someone going crazy with K9 at 1-2 is completely within the realm of possibilities. I don't think it's often, but really I'm more considering a shallow SPR when I'm saying that simply going with the hand isn't that bad.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 5,007 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bulldog wrote: »
    After thinking this through I think I should have folded, the big reraise on the turn in 1-2 often means a monster hand and with no draws on the board I should have put him on a boat.

    I think the point was it wasn't a big reraise on the turn. It was the smallest raise allowed by law, in fact, and that's what makes it a monster usually.

    But it's hard to judge how others quantify their hands. For all we know, this could be any old trip kings, which the villain thinks is the nuts. So hard to say.

    Preflop the raise was too wimpy for that many limpers IMO.

  • Steve007Steve007 Red Chipper Posts: 363 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2016
    My standard raise PF in this spot is to $20. I'm happy if everyone folds or if it goes heads up. If they all call anyway then you at least have the BTN and some hand strength.

    What are the stack sizes? It makes a huge difference, especially on the turn.

    If he can show up with K5 here then he will have more boats in his range with K5 and K7 in addition to pocket pairs, but he will also be capable of having K4, K6, K8, K9, KT, KJ, and maybe even KQ, and if he is really loose like the description says then K3 and K2 could even be in his range. The question is how many of those hands he is going to c/r the turn with. Many players will play the weaker kings passively with you driving the action so much, possibly fearing you have AK. But a really bad player might play all those hands with a king aggressively at some point.

    You say this player hasn't been aggressive. Maybe he is passive and won't make aggressive plays unless he has a really huge hand in this spot. But another reason he could seem so passive is he plays all kinds of garbage so he has a lot of weak hands in his range, and when you have a lot of weak hands in your range, you're going to be weak much of the time which will make you look more passive (unless you're a reckless bluffer lol but villain doesn't fit that description).

    It would be helpful to know if you've seen him overvalue weaker hands like top pair before, but you might not have that information.
    Bulldog wrote: »
    1 This villain would call pre-flop with any high card queen or better in his hand, suited or unsuited connectors pairs, any high cards j-10 or better, and pairs 22-AA. Also, he would chase any straight draw or flush draw to any bet.

    Also this villain was very lose pre-flop and on the flop,

    From that description this player sounds extremely bad and inexperienced so I don't think the turn is an obvious fold. Villain doesn't sound like a typical, cautious reg. This villain seems like a really clueless player and those types of players are more likely to make terrible decisions and show up with weaker holdings than you might expect.



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