JTc 10 handed

SixthStreetSixthStreet Red Chipper Posts: 260 ✭✭
2 limpers a raise to 5x 2 callers fold.
hero SB JTc 34x?
1 ready to call 3 showing ready to fold.
raiser has 25x behind very lose 35-40% on range
first caller super lose has to see 80%+ flops 16x behind.
second caller 120x call with about 30%.
give me some lines.


  • Wiki_LeaksWiki_Leaks Red Chipper Posts: 564 ✭✭✭
    Maybe im slow but i cant follow your post. Take a look at the posting rules. Us members want to give you a helpful, complete response so please do the same with your posts.
  • sparkyAAsparkyAA Red Chipper Posts: 160 ✭✭

    ^Some lines
  • tagliustaglius Red Chipper Posts: 291 ✭✭
    fold JT out of position
  • SixthStreetSixthStreet Red Chipper Posts: 260 ✭✭
    for Wikileaks 10 handed game
    MP 2 very loos raises alot opens 5bb (25bb behind) no position awareness
    HJ hs to see 80% plus flops calss (16bb behind)
    Co passive Lag pre flop range 20-25% of hands (120bb behind) understand position
    BTN fold
    Hero SB JTc (34bb behind)
    BB fold

    My thought based on player history.

    fold probably best

    Raise. thinking of shoving MP 2 will call then HJ calls for sure. I figure I 52%+ ahead of their range. Problem if CO calls I figure behind his calling range as us first 3 would be all in and no more bets for him. That could work in favor to up his fold equity as he has no implied odds.

    call should be out of question. make 2 large of pot and SPR so small if hit any card or draw pretty much committed

    spary AA nice..
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper Posts: 4,396 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No one sane is going to touch this hand history with a ten foot pole, buddy, so I see it's left to me.

    You have 1/3 of a playable stack. You're in the red zone and you're not even in a tournament! HA. You're looking for hands that are paired or make top pair and you have one move, and one move only. This table doesn't require any thinking beyond that. Shoving JT is pretty thin, not the worst, just in the vicinity of bad. But you can't call. Gamble if you want, that's fine, but that's all it is.

    Now, how the hell is the button a "PASSIVE LAG" [WTF] who CALLS two short stacks and yet he apparently "understand [sic] position". Here's what he is: a GF, which stands for Gamblin' Fool. Don't turn players into something they are not. Stop making this hard. And post his action!

    My point is really that there is no room for TAGs, LAGS, and whatever other fairy tales you want to make up in a shortstack game. This is showdown, simpleton poker. Make the best hand, take the money, make them cry.

    Here's the upside for you: this game is also RS, RETARDO SOFT. You can beat it with a real short stack strategy. Come up with shoving and limp/raising range and you are going to KILL this game. And then you are going to find a better one.

    Good luck.
  • Wiki_LeaksWiki_Leaks Red Chipper Posts: 564 ✭✭✭
    This is a likely drunk, likelier angry, and positively correct response.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper Posts: 4,396 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not angry in the least.
  • ShayneShayne Red Chipper Posts: 19 ✭✭
    I'm glad you touched it though. I would have to type one with one thumb. Other palm is stuck on my face.
  • SixthStreetSixthStreet Red Chipper Posts: 260 ✭✭
    Yes persuade we are all a bunch of soft fish at this game. Ok help me develop ranges. What is your idea of limp/raise range? Shove range.

    Here is game there about 18-20 players. Some have fold buttons, 3 will see every flop. 3 are total maniacs, but they get high from throwing money around.
    Typical table is everyone limps pre flop not much raising except QQ+, AJ+ position doesn't matter to most.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper Posts: 4,396 ✭✭✭✭✭

    At less than 40 bbs, a shortstacker friend of mine and I have developed 77+, ATs+, KQs, ATo+, KQo as a limp/shove. This gives him 10% hands to fight very loose ranges who will get committed, while not looking like a nit. It allows us to dominate his kings and beat any of the aces loose players will call off with. It's worked out well for both us. Adjust it to your opponents, of course- there is no one size fits all.

    Strategically, there are three main issues you will have to deal with when short stacking with this strat:

    1) spots/tables who won't raise enough. Now you have to tighten up.
    2) odd spots where it's limped to you in LP or the blinds and there is no raise to capture. This is tricky and it's tempting to isolate to half stack but they still won't fold and now you are committed on any flop.
    3) Once you double or triple, reverting to effective stacks. Easy to make errors when shifting strategies mid game.

    I'd also investigate Doug Hull's short stack commentaries.

    Best wishes.
  • SixthStreetSixthStreet Red Chipper Posts: 260 ✭✭
    Ok this is not the typical game I read about. We all buy in at 40bb. When u bust or get low buy another 40bb. So when u say limp/ shove range I can limp sometimes when I feel no raise? Or if raise behind me just shove when it comes back around? This fish tank no one seems to look at it as we are playing short stacked. They will play a weak hand chase drae lose buy in just grab another and go again. I hear about guys crushing this type of game. I must be implementing wrong. I am winner in this game,but never crush it. I see gu
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper Posts: 4,396 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So when u say limp/ shove range I can limp sometimes when I feel no raise?
    Well, eventually that will be an adjustment, because they will figure out what you are doing and you will mix things up. But start with a strict plan, because that's what these stacks demand. You need value, above all. Even small pairs are near worthless given stack sizes and loose calls from your opponents.
    Or if raise behind me just shove when it comes back around?
    Yes, that is the plan. The reason this works is because you claim the dead money in the pot and play your value heavy range perfectly but still have enough weaker hands to have some balance. You don't care if they fold or don't. They make all the errors by calling off.
  • SixthStreetSixthStreet Red Chipper Posts: 260 ✭✭
    My other question about range. With the range you gave do u literally fold everything & wait for those spots. I think that my big leak I watch so much junk win I start to play hands like J7s 9To & worse.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper Posts: 4,396 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes. Fold everything, absolute discipline. Looking only to 1) claim dead money. 2) get it in with advantage. We'll win by shutting out our opponents or inducing errors, not out flopping them.

    That's the ballgame.

    Some adjustments for your specific 40 bb game:

    I might start off even tighter, and drop all the A10o and 77.

    20-30 bbs is really nice for the range I gave you but as you approach 40 the full shove becomes almost too big, so... if you do have a full 40 vs. 40 bb situation and there is only one raise to 3 bet, not shove but just raise to induce a shove from loose opponents which I will call, and fold only to pure nits.

    Now, some of your opponents have about 20 bbs in this posted hand. That's absolutely perfect for the first range I gave you to get it in.
  • SixthStreetSixthStreet Red Chipper Posts: 260 ✭✭
    Thanks I need to get discipline.
  • SixthStreetSixthStreet Red Chipper Posts: 260 ✭✭
    Persaudeo. Ok with 40bb I on button limped me. I have hand in your range should I be like 80/20 raise/limp to balance because I don't belive I ever going to just pick up dead money in this game? Ex. 5x raise 2 call miss flop. Fit n fold on bad flop attack with good flop?
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper Posts: 4,396 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Right now you don't know what it is going to take for them to fold, so it's time to find out, in this scenario.

    So, start with bigger raises. In a game like this for an iso raise you need to go 5x +1 for every limper minimum. I like 6x +1 personally. Really make it hurt for them to limp in with speculative hands. So right now if the blinds are raising and squeezing yes I like your frequency idea.

    You will have position and can evaluate if you are going to fold flop, but in general you are looking to shove flop or check behind to realize equity or delayed cbet. There will be less than 3 SPR in this case every time so it will always be basically one bet poker. You will have edge on all a,k, q, flops and some pairs and sets on all lower ones, so your coverage of every board will be pretty good.

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