Poor QQ play.

Riverboat BillRiverboat Bill Red Chipper Posts: 454 ✭✭
I just sat at a .50/1. game. This is about the eight hand. My thoughts. I am BB with :Qs :Qc UTG1 bets $3 and UTG2 3! to $8. I flat to keep the action and assess. Is this a bluff or big pair? Flop :5d :6h :8c
BB check
UTG2 bets 11 and I call pot $40.
Turn :5h
UTG2 bets 20 I call pot $80. My thinking is UTG2 has AA,KK,AK,JJ,TT He 3bet pre flop and I put him on a big hand.
River :8d UTG2 shoves. I think he has either AA or KK to win and I like the odds. I call
UTG turns over :7s :9s
I did not put him on this hand or a boat. What mistakes do you see? Where do you see the hand going wrong? I slow played to get some action, but I take that as a calculation just like the villain 3bet :7s :9s

Comments

  • Ranceg29Ranceg29 Red Chipper Posts: 145 ✭✭
    I dont see any glaring problems between preflop & the turn seeing you explained a sound thought process during every decision point. He woke up with a hand that you did not have in his range which happens from time to time. Cant really comment on river since you dont say how much he shoves for.
  • dirty moosedirty moose Red Chipper Posts: 482 ✭✭✭
    I'm no on line wizard by any means but why not 4 bet? A 4 bet most likely ends the hand pre flop and you take an uncontested pot.
    Doubtful they would flat your 4 bet with Kk or AA.
    So we put 20 BB in , if they flat, mostly AK and weaker pair. If they 5 bet, we fold. They fold we win!

    On a general note, we have the 3rd best hand in the game, why not 4 bet it?
    Keep it simple stupid!

    Matt
  • Riverboat BillRiverboat Bill Red Chipper Posts: 454 ✭✭
    I want to get blasted. I know my slow play did me in. Sometimes I see big pots won playing like I did, when my normal play is to 4! in that situation. It's just taking a bad risk to get too much and lose control of the hand.
  • FilthyCasualFilthyCasual Red Chipper Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2016
    Hope you 4 bet really wide after they showed a 9 high 3 bet! I would also make it a point to be in every hand with this guy, value betting a straight on a double paired board? For some reason, I have my doubts that this was a bluff, and if it was it was thin at best.
  • JesseJesse Red Chipper Posts: 134 ✭✭
    1. What are stack sizes? 4betting may be bad depending on stack sizes.

    2. Why 4bet? Are we happy to call a 5bet ship?

    3. As played, I would be super concerned on the river. I don't expect someone to randomly 3barrel A-hi on that board, nor do I expect people to 3bet JJ small (most people would make it big to protect their vulnerable JJ if they 3bet at all).
  • dirty moosedirty moose Red Chipper Posts: 482 ✭✭✭
    Jesse wrote: »
    1. What are stack sizes? 4betting may be bad depending on stack sizes.

    2. Why 4bet? Are we happy to call a 5bet ship?

    3. As played, I would be super concerned on the river. I don't expect someone to randomly 3barrel A-hi on that board, nor do I expect people to 3bet JJ small (most people would make it big to protect their vulnerable JJ if they 3bet at all).

    He being new to the table, I assumed he has 100BB
    We are not happy calling a 5 bet ship. Becomes an ez fold then.

    First raise was to 3 BB, 3 bet went to 8 BB. We can make it 20 or 25 BB and well know everything we need to about our hand.
  • Riverboat BillRiverboat Bill Red Chipper Posts: 454 ✭✭
    This has helped me a lot, in a lot of different ways. I am OMC and trying to think ranges like a lot of posts suggest takes a faster mind than I have. But experience and videos by @SplitSuit and others helps. I put people on hands, but my range is too tight. I have to see examples in my own play to help me see how I can adjust.

    I play around with Poker Cruncher, but real game experience like above shows me how I didn't apply all I have been getting. I had QQ, 3-4 more time yesterday and played them all well. Thanks to the responses here!!

    Odd flops like sets and str8's are hard to recognize, but if I take the time to compare what I am learning about ranges and put it together I can spot things. OMC can learn new tricks, but it's a slower process.

    Thanks.
  • player2player2 Red Chipper Posts: 3
    I think he has either AA or KK to win and I like the odds. I call

    If you narrowed his range to [AA, KK] why did you call the river?
  • Riverboat BillRiverboat Bill Red Chipper Posts: 454 ✭✭
    player2 wrote: »
    I think he has either AA or KK to win and I like the odds. I call

    If you narrowed his range to [AA, KK] why did you call the river?
    It's hard to say everything I thought. But if you read the post, you only quoted part of what I said. AA,KK were part of the hands I thought he could have and I thought QQ could beat the others. I put the other hands in the post hands in my post. I never said his entire range in my mind was AA, KK.

    My interest was in thoughts from people that would help me to widen my ranges I put V's on. Flopped small straight after the V 3! isn't where I put him. I also was hoping some conversation might develop about bet sizing and betting tells to help in expanding my ranges.

    Thanks again for the replies. I get a lot out of posting and reviewing comments about an actual hand I played. Just from this thread, I have made $$$ playing QQ+, including mucking QQ, KK.
  • player2player2 Red Chipper Posts: 3
    I misunderstood. Apologies. AA-KK to win, and the rest of his range to lose. I get it now.

    I think this is a good example of a hand to widen a specific players range, but I would be careful about widening your default range for a UTG raise followed by a UTG+1 reraise. This is a pretty honest position in most cases without any other information.

    IMO, against an unknown I think I would have check folded the river. Your hand looks a lot like a medium / high pocket pair TT, JJ and sometimes your QQ. The board ran out low so there isn't much incentive to bluff besides his range appearing stronger than yours.

    QQ is very difficult here. Tough spot!

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