Paired board against a crazy lag...

EazzyEazzy Red Chipper Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭✭
1-2 deep stacked game...(100 to 500 buy in)

Villain just came to the table...but Ive played with him before...he is always lagy and at times crazy lagy...goes through periods when he straddles and always raises his straddle big....I've limped, raised his straddle in the past and he shoved over me with 95s type thing (given stack sizes his shove was just stupid as I was totally committed)...he's only played about 4 hands which he has done nothing this time...(probably been a couple of month since I've played with him but I doubt he's changed)....he comes to the table with 500...

I doubt Villain remembers Hero....though Ive called him down light a few times...(lags seems to like try to bluff me a lot, as i'm usually one of the tightest players)....Ive got about 300...

2 limpers, I look down and see :8d:7d , and make it $12....folds to Villain in SB who calls, BB calls and limpers fold....

3 to the flop...35 ish after rake...

:Qc:Qs:3c

it checks to me...I know this is the exact type of board that lags like villain like to attack....it checks to me....I have no equity at all, Cbet ???

I Cbet, 25....and as expected Villain makes it $50....now a min raise here makes little sense with the two tone board....Bad regs often make this bet with some sort of pair tyring to see where their at. But this guy it's more likely raw aggression. If I raise he capable of shoving over my raise, and well with 8 high I can't pick off his bluff. If I shove (over bet, it looks like a flush draw but it a thought....I figure I can weight for the turn and shove over his bet here....

Turn 2 players 135....

:8h

Villain bets 85...well now things change....It unlikely villain has a Q...he just has to many bluffs in his range...and with the club draw out there I dont think he ever makes a min raise on the flop....The line does not make sense to me, I now have a bluff catcher so I just Call 85....

The problem is if I did not catch the 8....once he bets 85...would I have enough behind to make a shove....I would have about 150...behind...into a 300 pot...but then if I really think he has nothing does it matter....

Given stack sizes and the fact that I have little equity...just giving up and not Cbetting the fkop the best option...or was I correct to go after this guys likely raw aggression and a line I don't believe (kicking my inner nit in the but)

thoughts??...







Comments

  • Ranceg29Ranceg29 Red Chipper Posts: 145 ✭✭

    Against this specific player and the fact theres a 3rd in on the flop I would check behind a lot of boards that I brick with this specific hand however this is 1 of the few boards I would take a stab at seeing its a bad board for villains to actually have anything. With that being said Its a "1 and done spot" for me.

    Beyond that I would just never get into a leveling war with the guy who wants to get it all in pre with 95. Hes just not going to fold hands that he has a lot of money invested into the pot with. Hes not your typical player thats raising the flop to "see where hes at". He wants to get stacks in whether he has the Q or not. My strat would be play small pots with him and give him big action only on your terms, meaning when you have at least top pair. Eventually you'll get his money and it probably wont take that long.
  • GabeyJGabeyJ Red Chipper Posts: 436 ✭✭✭
    You aren't really deep enough to be able to call a raise on the flop nor do I think you should be stabbing at this at all since I would be under the impression that sb has a good amount of Broadway's and suited cards when he calls the sb.
  • FilthyCasualFilthyCasual Red Chipper Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2016
    I'll take 'Checking behind and taking a free card' for $200, Alex.

    I like the pot control and we just don't really have anything we can double barrel on the turn. I'd be surprised if a single barrel took this down, so I'm okay with checking.

    Also, what are we representing besides a cbet? Not much, imo
  • RCP Coach - Fausto ValdezRCP Coach - Fausto Valdez RCP Coach Posts: 859 ✭✭✭✭
    you should def check this behind for the simple fact that villain is laggy and he will def challenge you enough that you dont have to take every opportunity where he could be weak. That being said on this board texture with a sticky opponent in the hand and you dont even have backdoor equity (besides making a pair) i will just check.

    As played when he min raises you on the flop, even doh it could be weak i would just let it go because you end up trying to be creative and get your self in trouble in a spot you dont need to take and trust me im really aggressive but this spot is not necessary. Unless you have some sick exploitative move that you know he always folds to another re raise then by all means go ahead but in general, just let it go.

    I like that you had a plan to push him off on the turn but be reealllly careful on how much you are leaving yourself behind and that you could actually push him off with a shove on the turn with what you think his most likely bet size will be.
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  • philby20philby20 Red Chipper Posts: 189 ✭✭
    I think I sometimes forget that bad lag players also make hands on od occasions also. I'd either three bet on the flop or get out of there knowing I would get villains money when in a more profitable spot. I find I make the most money value betting idiots when I'm strong not bluffing them when I'm weak as bad players just love to call not to say I never do it but just not to much
  • BenLeewoodBenLeewood Red Chipper Posts: 285 ✭✭
    I would fold to his min raise or call it quick and and fold on the turn. This just isn't a good situation for you since your out of position. A suited connector just doesn't play well in this situation. You want several callers making it a big pot. And you want a straight/flush draw....not a pair.

    Eject
  • GabeyJGabeyJ Red Chipper Posts: 436 ✭✭✭
    Ben he isn't oop. And I'd like to hear why he wants to play his suited connectors in a pot with multiple callers. Isn't our goal to go heads up as often as possible?
  • WuBerryWuBerry Red Chipper Posts: 10 ✭✭
    Wouldn't c-bet flop. But if I did, I would 3-bet or fold once he raised. U have very little equity when called in this spot.
  • Jimmy3150Jimmy3150 Red Chipper Posts: 362 ✭✭
    Are you really fine with losing a buyin when villain turns over 99 (or something similar) at showdown? You're getting into a car crash scenario with an implied odds hand that has not connected with the board. You've been proactive enough to think ahead that villain will be aggressive on this board... Yet then you go and cbet anyway which makes no sense to me. It just puts you in a tough spot with 8 high ... Even if he is super LAG...you are still behind almost 100% of the time. You can just take the free card, keep the pot small at this stage with what is a bad hand and then bluff catch from then on when you hit the pair on the turn.

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