4 Bet Hand

SullySully Red Chipper Posts: 780 ✭✭✭
1-2 live $200 cap buy in

Hero- $400- At game for 20 minutes, Aggressive image . Already had 2 all ins vs 2-5 player that just sat down at same time as hero, splitting them. Hero has shown QQ and AK

Villain- $600. 2-5 player unknown to hero. Has been there awhile from listening to table talk

Hero- HJ raises to $17 with :Ac:Kh
Villain in SB raises to $40
Fold around
Hero reraises to $100
Villain thinks for a moment and calls
pot $206

Flop: :5d:2c:8h

Villain checks


what range do think villain has for calling the 4 Bet?



  • FilthyCasualFilthyCasual Red Chipper Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2016
    10+ AK and maybe AQ and some relative air. 60 to see 140 isn't really horrible odds, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was an ego thing that turned into pot odds such as"This guy isn't raising again and getting away with it" / "Well, now I have to call"

    Having 3x the capped buy in, I'm a little more inclined to lean towards a value 3b, but really going to be a little too small of a sample size for me to be definitive in an assessment.

    Just rip it. You have the uncapped range. Depending on the villain, they might want to avoid someone on a 'streak' as welll. Of course, this might still be the booze that hasn't worked it's way through my system from St Patrick's Day
  • Ranceg29Ranceg29 Red Chipper Posts: 145 ✭✭
    All In! Seems kinda maniacal but you have a better chance of folding out his overpairs at $300 than at $125-$175. Put him to a tough decision. If you bet anything smaller you wont have any fold equity on the turn if called.
  • FilthyCasualFilthyCasual Red Chipper Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2016
    Ranceg29 wrote: »
    All In! Seems kinda maniacal but you have a better chance of folding out his overpairs at $300 than at $125-$175. Put him to a tough decision. If you bet anything smaller you wont have any fold equity on the turn if called.

    This was kind of where it was at. I'm not really one to just jam, but we are in a 4b pot with the SPR is at a wonky at 1.5. I don't believe their is much FE in betting 2/3 or less, at least from anything we beat so the standard cbet seemed wrong. And if we are called, do we barrel turn as well with the same bet size or less than the flop bet? I doubt that many of the combos that called the flop are going to be folding to the ~$150 turn-desperation jam into a pot of ~$500

    We could check, but do we just fold the 88% of the time our hand doesn't improve on the turn and villain leads for half pot? That seems exploitable and not really much of a plan. I know their are times to give up on a hand, and maybe this is one of them, but seems really poor play to get a 4 bet in, and fail to continue with another action to get the pot.

    The one thing I will mention is the 4bet with AK off might be hurting hero's overall ranges. Someone with a lot more GTO experience and research than I can try and claim was talking about the difference between off suite and suited isn't necessarily the pure value difference in the hands themselves(the extra 2% showdown equity), but the playability is far greater and their is a natural barreling that will come about. Let's say you have AKs, and the same flop comes out. You would than be able to barrel the times you have back door equity, and check any time you don't. This falls really freaking close to the 70% recommended by Ed Miller if we are solely looking at AKs being the only part of our range. If your suited barreling range is balanced itself, it's going to balance the rest of the ranges better as a whole. When you start playing the off-suite, it's hard to keep your barrels balanced, and you'll generally become more exploitable since you'll have to barrel so much more frequently with air, your villains are going to notice your hand reaching for that cookie jar far too often

    So, maybe a little more seriously (and more soberly), flat the $40 3 bet from the SB preflop, and play poker from that point forward.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think the $40 3 bet is small and more on the value side hoping for a call. I like your sizing despite flop being in a tough spot. For me i would be more inclined to bet small here $80-$120 because if i had a value 4 bet range heavily weighted towards kk and aa this is a super dry board and there really isn't much to be afraid of.

    If you bet say another $100 on the flop pot will be $300 with $200 behind and if he jams he will be risking $300. You will be getting like 3:1 which i think you can still fold for and only be risking your session profit. If I find if he is going to put you on AK the amount doesn't matter. If he is stuck on the session or money doesn't matter to him this might be -ev shove because over estimated fold equity.

    If you are making exact same play with qq kk aa then i don't mind a jam but lean towards 40% cbet just cause of texture. I would make same play with say AcKc but double barrel any club and give up on any other card. Also if it was t83 instead barell any broadway and hope he doesn't have a set.

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