Did I misplay this monster?

the_tpupthe_tpup Red Chipper Posts: 75 ✭✭
edited January 2017 in Live Poker Hands
3/5 NL Game

:9s :9c in BB , with 550 behind

Fold all around to Button (who has approx $300 behind) who calls the $5.

I raise to $25 - Button Calls.

Button is a good player that I've played with before but not enough for him to "know" me. I'd say the button is on the TAG side but knows when to let go of a hand as I've seen him make good laydowns before.

Flop is :9d :Qh :Js

I check - Button bets $60 - I flat

Turn is :2c - Button bets $125 - I shove, he tanks , tanks, tanks, mutters and calls.

River is :Ah

Button mucks :Ks :Kh

My questions lay in

- Did I play preflop right? Should I be raising or flatting here?
- Did I play post flop right? Should I be check raising / check calling / or leading out

I'm very confused about my play in these BB / SB scenarios where I'm going against the other blind or the button as I feel this is a weaker spot in my game.

Thoughts?
Tagged:

Comments

  • GabeyJGabeyJ Red Chipper Posts: 436 ✭✭✭
    I would be raising here pre flop as well I think any time it folds around to the button and the button limps I'm almost in auto raise mode.

    I'm also leading out here with a set I'm pretty much trying to set it up to get my stacks in.

    As played I think you should be raising his flop bet.
  • the_tpupthe_tpup Red Chipper Posts: 75 ✭✭
    Whats the upside to raising the flop? To win it straight out right there and prevent him from getting there. If we check raise the flop, we're committing ourselves to betting the turn big - this may be the right line - just one I need more feedback on to feel comfortable with
  • tagliustaglius Red Chipper Posts: 290 ✭✭
    the_tpup wrote:
    Whats the upside to raising the flop? To win it straight out right there and prevent him from getting there.

    Not correct. We win money when people call with worse hands - we never want to "take down the hand now" by blowing them out of it. We raise the flop because there are plenty of worse hands that villain will continue with.

    Yes, sometimes he will have a draw that gets there. But we win more money overall by letting him draw and get there sometimes than we would by blowing him out of the pot and winning no more money.
  • GabeyJGabeyJ Red Chipper Posts: 436 ✭✭✭
    So the reason I bet the flop is. You can't be sure your opponent is going to bet. If he does have an over pair two pair or a good draw he is going to raise and you can then pound it in. In a situation like this I'm deff trying to set it up so we are playing for stacks.
    A check raise is an ok line but I think you should want to stay the aggressor. through out. And you really don't want a check back. If someone check raises me on this board when I have KK after they bet pre-flop. I'm gonna assume they are pretty strong and might lay it down there. But if the do a standard C-bet I'm pounding the flop. That's just how I play. I'm sure you will get some good feedback from the coaches on this sometime soon they are good about getting to everyone.
  • SadTrombonesSadTrombones Red Chipper Posts: 9
    Stacks are 60bb effective. You need 3 bets to get stacks in. You don't need to manufacture a raise. Sounds like bet/bet/bet gets the job done.
  • ArtArtBobartArtArtBobart Red Chipper Posts: 357 ✭✭
    Here is my two cents (take it for what it is worth :) )

    1. I think you give button way too much credit for being a good player. First, he has only 60BBs on the button and limps with KK. Second, he only flats your $25 raise from the blind. Finally, tanks for his last $90 with an overpair + gutshot and the pot has $410 in it.

    2. If I had the lead preflop, I'm almost always betting my flopped sets. The flop check looks suspicious when you give up the lead. This also makes my other c-bets more believable. More importantly, you don't flop monsters that often--you need to get the money in fast and hopefully play for stacks.
  • Christian SotoChristian Soto RCP Coach Posts: 2,193 ✭✭✭✭
    Okay cool spot!

    Let's not assume BU is a good player, he is sitting with $300 in a $3/5 game and he just limped the BU. Not really good player traits.

    You open with 99 to $25, I like it.

    Flop is where it gets interesting.

    On a board of
    :Q? :J? :9?

    You are definitely going to face resistance often especially if the board has a suit. I think these are boards we want to be checking often say we have AQ/KK or so- we don't want to face a raise and potentially fold out the best hand or be guessing. For that reason, I think you should develop a CR range to protect our AQ type hands when we check/call and this hand is perfect.

    Even more so if the board reads 9 J 8 two tone.
  • GabeyJGabeyJ Red Chipper Posts: 436 ✭✭✭
    Interesting take on it. I like it
  • GabeyJGabeyJ Red Chipper Posts: 436 ✭✭✭
    A few levels above my thought process
  • Christian SotoChristian Soto RCP Coach Posts: 2,193 ✭✭✭✭
    GabeyJ wrote:
    A few levels above my thought process

    Oh please!! Lol. ;-) But I'll take that as a compliment.

    Remember we always want to look at our overall range and how certain hands can protect other portions of our range on different board textures.
  • ArtArtBobartArtArtBobart Red Chipper Posts: 357 ✭✭
    Christian,

    To be clear, you suggest going for a flop check-raise? Aren't you potentially giving up money if the flop checks through? There are enough hands the button would call with on the flop to justify simply betting out, especially against this particular player.

    I understand your point that you want some strong check-raising hands in your range so that you may face less aggression in future hands when you have something like top pair on a highly coordinated board. If you go for this play, am I correct in assuming it is more for the benefit of the other players at this table? I don't think the player on the button would be able pick up this fact. He appears to be a weak player who will continue to play a short stack for the remainder of the session.
  • Christian SotoChristian Soto RCP Coach Posts: 2,193 ✭✭✭✭
    Betting flop here in a vacuum is fine of course and I'm certain this opponent can and will call with worse often.

    But in general we should be holding certain hands back as a CR in order to protect some C/C's hands such as AQ/KK in these spots versus more capable opponents.

    Therefore, if someone said they wanted to CR here for the reasons I gave, I would completely agree.

    However, if you want to bet because it doesn't necessarily matter against this opponent, that's cool too but I wouldn't make it a habit. :-)

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