Range Reading - A4s Exercise

SplitSuitSplitSuit RCP Coach Posts: 3,930 -
edited April 2016 in Hand Reading
Ready to challenge yourself? I created this quick exercise to see the kind of ranges Red Chippers are assigning in a pretty common hand. It's just a single spot and feel free to use your software (Equilab, Flopzilla, etc.) to complete it:

http://redchippoker.com/yo/workbook-ace-four/

At the end of the exercise you can copy the output and paste it right into this thread to share your answers. That way we can all have a discussion about the ranges being assigned every step of the way.

GLGL!
My new book lays out the playbook for AK. Grab your copy and start Optimizing Ace King!
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Comments

  • TaintBDTaintBD Red Chipper Posts: 12
    Preflop Range: TT-QQ, AK, AQs, AJs, KQs (4%)

    Flop: :As :6h :2c

    Flop CB Range: AK, AQs, AJs (40%)

    Turn: :Jh

    Turn Betting Range: AK, AQ, AJ (40%)

    River: :5d

    River Checking Range: AQ (1%)

    ...and as-played I would Check Behind when he checks
  • TaintBDTaintBD Red Chipper Posts: 12
    SplitSuit I love your content and I am quite eager to see your hand-reading workbook. I definitely need the help!!
  • TheDukezTheDukez Red Chipper Posts: 11
    Preflop Range: ATs+, AJo+ KQ+, 88+ (8%)

    Flop: :As :6h :2c

    Flop CB Range: ATs+, AJo+, KQh (35%)

    Turn: :Jh

    Turn Betting Range: ATs+, AJo+, KQh (100%)

    River: :5d

    River Checking Range: KQh (1%)

    ...and as-played I would Go All-In when he checks

    Damn I love it.
  • sp1ke36sp1ke36 Red Chipper Posts: 38 ✭✭
    Preflop Range: 99+, AQs+, KQs, AKo (5%)

    Flop: :As :6h :2c

    Flop CB Range: AA, KK, QQ, AQ+ (51%)

    Turn: :Jh

    Turn Betting Range: AA, AQ+ (48%)

    River: :5d

    River Checking Range: AQ (18%)

    ...and as-played I would Check Behind when he checks





  • TheDukezTheDukez Red Chipper Posts: 11
    edited April 2016
    Epic value shove, because he thinks I also have a busted flushdraw, but a weaker one, because I have enough of these in my range because the fish in mp called his pre raise.

    Or maybe this kind of thinking proces is exactly the reason why im not a pro.. LoL
  • jjakestr8jjakestr8 Red Chipper Posts: 78 ✭✭
    Preflop Range: AA-88,AKo-AQo,KQo,AKs-AJs,KQs (7%)

    Flop: :As :6h :2c

    Flop CB Range: AA-88,AKo-AQo,KQo,AKs-AJs,KQs (100%)

    Turn: :Jh

    Turn Betting Range: AA,JJ,AKo-AQo,AKs-AJs (50%)

    River: :5d

    River Checking Range: AKo-AQo,AKs-AQs (75%)

    ...and as-played I would Go All-In when he checks
  • NeoThe0neNeoThe0ne Red Chipper Posts: 2 ✭✭
    Preflop Range: 99+, AJs+, AQo+ (5%)

    Flop: :As :6h :2c

    Flop CB Range: AJs+, AQo+,99+ (100%)

    Turn: :Jh

    Turn Betting Range: AJs+,AQo+,JJ,AA (48%)

    River: :5d

    River Checking Range: AQ,AK (73%)

    ...and as-played I would Check Behind when he checks
  • jjakestr8jjakestr8 Red Chipper Posts: 78 ✭✭
    I shove because:
    1) he checks all his 1 pair hands, and bets his sets and top 2.
    2) he doesn't hero call a $400 river bet with 1 pair when I easily could have a straight, set, or 2 pair in my range
  • KyantoKyanto Red Chipper Posts: 1
    Preflop Range: 77+, AJ+, ATs, KQ, KJs, QJs, (9%)

    Flop: :As :6h :2c

    Flop CB Range: AA, AJ+, ATs, KQss (40%)

    Turn: :Jh

    Turn Betting Range: AA, AJ+ (90%)

    River: :5d

    River Checking Range: AQ, AK (60%)

    ...and as-played I would Check Behind when he checks


    He's got like 75% of PSB behind, no way is he ever gonna fold, AQ/AK here when the river bricks. Easy check to induce if I were him.

    Also XXss is the best bluff to cbet because of the As on the board, which means KQss would draw to nutflush. KQss > KQhh/KQcc
  • 0ffcer0ffcer Red Chipper Posts: 3 ✭✭
    RCP,
    Here is the output from the exercise.
    Preflop Range: 66+, JTs+, QTs+, KTs+, KQo+, ATs+ ATo+ (12%) - Boring Tag, right?

    Flop: :As :6h :2c

    Flop CB Range: ATo+, ATs+ AA, 66 (11%)

    Turn: :Jh

    Turn Betting Range: ATo+, ATs+ AA, 66 (11%)

    River: :5d

    River Checking Range: AKo, AQo, ATo, ATs, AQs, AKs (3%)

    ...and as-played I would Check Behind when he checks. Shoving would send a boring tag into the tank. Not sure how to find a bluff shove but the story could make sense.

    Thx Professor Sweeny. This was a fun way to engage. Well done.
  • bAdbAd Red Chipper Posts: 1

    Preflop Range: 66+, AJo+, ATs+, KQs (8%)

    Flop: :As :6h :2c

    Flop CB Range: 77-KK, AJo+, ATs+, KQs (95%)

    Turn: :Jh

    Turn Betting Range: AJ+, JJ (55%)

    River: :5d

    River Checking Range: AK, AQ (60%)

    ...and as-played I would Check Behind when he checks
  • ImperatorImperator Red Chipper Posts: 895 ✭✭✭

    Preflop Range: 55+, A8s+, A5s, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, AQo+ (11%)

    Flop: :As :6h :2c

    Flop CB Range: QQ+, 66, A8s+, A5s, 76s, 65s, KhQh, KsQs, KcQc, QhJh, QsJs, QcJc, JhTh, JsTs, JcTc, 8h7h, 8s7s, 8c7c, AQo+ (45%)

    Turn: :Jh

    Turn Betting Range: 70 (70%)

    River: :5d

    River Checking Range: KK-QQ, AJs, KQs, QJs, 87s (40%)

    ...and as-played I would Go All-In when he checks

  • NeoThe0neNeoThe0ne Red Chipper Posts: 2 ✭✭
    edited April 2016
    Shoving the river does make sense given I think villain has a better hand than mine so I know I'm unlikely to win by checking behind. However, I called the flop cbet to find out on the turn if his flop cbet range is TP+ or PP<TP. plus I had a back door flush draw. I called the turn cbet knowing villain likely has TP+ but I now have more outs to a flush. I have 12 outs to hit a likely better hand & getting almost 3 to 1 so my actual and implied odds justify the turn call. When villain checks the river his range is now likely a one pair bluff catcher type hand. The pot is greater than the stacks behind so if I shove villain will be getting more than 2 to 1 to call with his bluff catcher, which he'll need to win about 30% of the time. If villain thinks through my range of hands that I hold on the river that I shove with, he will realise that just over half of my range at the river beats his actual hand, and just under half he will beat (my weaker top pair & missed flush draw combos). Therefore given he needs to win about 30% and he beats my range about 45% of the time, villain should call my shove. Would a straight forward TAG call in this spot? I think its about 50:50 so a shove does make sense for hero some of the time. The reason I chose to check behind in this spot is because I think on balance there's a good chance he will call my shove and I'll lose my stack. I have enough chips behind to continue the battle and find some better spots later on to chip up.
  • ImperatorImperator Red Chipper Posts: 895 ✭✭✭
    Maybe it is good money after bad, but the reason I shoved is because he's tight. I'm assuming if he believed he had the hand he would have shot one more time. I don't believe he is ready to play for stacks so I'm assuming he would fold about 35% of the time which is way more than I need.
  • Riverboat BillRiverboat Bill Red Chipper Posts: 452 ✭✭
    Preflop Range: TT+,AK,KQss (8%)

    Flop: :As :6h :2c

    Flop CB Range: 100% (100%)

    Turn: :Jh

    Turn Betting Range: 25% (25%)

    River: :5d

    River Checking Range: 25% (100%)

    ...and as-played I would Check Behind when he checks

    **I DID NOT US POKER CRUNCHER**
  • ImperatorImperator Red Chipper Posts: 895 ✭✭✭
    The reason I would go all in here is that he is a tight player.

    I think if he wanted to play for stacks he would have bet something on the river. I'm taking Miller's advice here when playing at 2-5, if you think your opponent doesn't want to play for stacks then make him play for stacks and watch him fold.

    I think a tight and straight forward player would not check and raise on the river. He would bet something if he believed he was ahead. I think that he would fold more than 40% of the time. Maybe he would fold as much as 35% of the time. That is way more than I need. So I shoved.

    Over-the-Felt I am not sure I would think so clearly, though, or assign ranges in this way. I am not experienced enough. So the fact that I would do this in home analysis doesn't mean I would do it OTF. This only shows my inexperience. Ideally home analysis would match OTF. (In Chess we say OTB, Over-the-Board, as opposed to home analysis. So I thought I would import the term here. Maybe some use it already.)
  • XCobraJockXCobraJock Red Chipper Posts: 6 ✭✭
    Preflop Range: JJ+, AK, AQs (3%)

    Flop: :As :6h :2c

    Flop CB Range: QQ+, AK, AQs (88%)

    Turn: :Jh

    Turn Betting Range: AA, AK, AQs he might check KK, QQ - Yes, he might fire with KK, QQ (85%)

    River: :5d

    River Checking Range: AQ - No, I don't think he bluffs the river. (16%)

    ...and as-played I would Check Behind when he checks
  • marozet@gmail.com[email protected] Red Chipper Posts: 1
    Preflop Range: QQ+,AQ+ (3%)

    Flop: :As :6h :2c

    Flop CB Range: AA,AQ+ (70%)

    Turn: :Jh

    Turn Betting Range: AA,AQ+ (100%)

    River: :5d

    River Checking Range: 50% AQ (24%)

    ...and as-played I would Go All-In when he checks
  • eisen009eisen009 Red Chipper Posts: 14 ✭✭
    Preflop Range: TT+,AJs+,AJo+,KQs (6%)

    Flop: :As :6h :2c

    Flop CB Range: TT+,AJs+,AJo+ (92%)

    Turn: :Jh

    Turn Betting Range: AJs+,AJo+,JJ (59%)

    River: :5d

    River Checking Range: AQ+ (61%)

    ...and as-played I would Check Behind when he checks
  • SCP00SCP00 Red Chipper Posts: 72 ✭✭
    Preflop Range: 88+, AQs+, AKo (4%)

    Flop: :As :6h :2c

    Flop CB Range: 88+, AQs+, AKo (100%)

    Turn: :Jh

    Turn Betting Range: JJ, AA, AQs+, AKo. No (41%)

    River: :5d

    River Checking Range: AQ would check. NO (14%)

    ...and as-played I would Check Behind when he checks
  • eisen009eisen009 Red Chipper Posts: 14 ✭✭
    edited April 2016
  • 4 Horseman4 Horseman Red Chipper Posts: 29 ✭✭
    Preflop Range: AJs+,AQo,AKo,KQs,88+ (6%)

    Flop: :As :6h :2c

    Flop CB Range: AJs+,AQo,AKo,KQs,88+ (100%)

    Turn: :Jh

    Turn Betting Range: AJs+,AQo,AKo,KQh,JJ,AA (3%)

    River: :5d

    River Checking Range: KQhh,AQs,AQo (39%)

    ...and as-played I would Check Behind when he checks
  • QTxYankeeQTxYankee Red Chipper Posts: 10 ✭✭
    edited April 2016
    I'm so uncomfortable with this whole process. What kind of image do we have at this table?
    Am I the fish who limps fourth and fifth on every hand even when the betting is started in early position by a nit? Or is this unusual for me and I'm forking my range by simply calling here when a raise to try and eliminate a few players was available? If both the nit and I are a potential threat, then the action by the SB indicates a VERY strong hand. If I'm just another fish, he could be "raising to punish the limpers" with a really wide range. Our action has made this really hard in the games I see. I would rather have laid the hand down than call with it.
    But having limped, I reach the same conclusion as others that SB is strong and trying to induce a bluff and I'm checking behind and ready to muck to his better A, set, or two pair (and consider a table change where I can work on a new image).
  • MarshallMarshall Red Chipper Posts: 24
    Preflop Range: 55+, AJo+, ATs+, KJs+, KQo, QJs+ (10%)

    Flop: :As :6h :2c

    Flop CB Range: 66+, AJo+, ATs+, KQo, KJs+ (90%)

    Turn: :Jh

    Turn Betting Range: 66, JJ+, AJ+, KhQh, KJs (68%)

    River: :5d

    River Checking Range: QQ, KK, KhQh, KJs, AQ+ (46%)

    ...and as-played I would Check Behind when he checks
  • SplitSuitSplitSuit RCP Coach Posts: 3,930 -
    QTxYankee wrote: »
    I'm so uncomfortable with this whole process. What kind of image do we have at this table?

    Just do the exercise as if this is your first orbit at the table.
    My new book lays out the playbook for AK. Grab your copy and start Optimizing Ace King!
  • 4 Horseman4 Horseman Red Chipper Posts: 29 ✭✭
    What range are we repping when we shove all in on river? Remember we limp called villains raise. Pre-flop we are 22+88, A2s-A9s, KQo,KJo,,JTo, Possibly some suited connectors 76s-JTs. (Not how I'd play hand) Flop A62r, we are continuing with A2-A9, 66,22, maybe 77-88. When the Jh hits the turn and villain barrels, our calling range consists of
    A3,4,5,7,8,9hh
    A2s,A6s
    22,66

    5d on the river makes two pair for A5hh, and all other Axhh bust out.

    so, doing this in flopzilla shows that we have in our range either two pair or a set 69% of the time and top pair 31%(31% with top pair are the missed flush draw hands that we would consider jamming as a bluff).
    Questions to consider if jamming river:
    1) How good of a hand reader/player is villain? Is he capable of folding top pair (AK,AQ)?
    2) What is our image? Would we jam our entire river range?

    SplitSuit, am I thinking this through correctly or am I way off here?



  • MarshallMarshall Red Chipper Posts: 24
    I think you've got to check behind the end. If you shove, he's folding everything you beat and calling with whatever beats you, effectively turning our hand into a failed bluff that targets his check-call range. Easy check behind as you aren't getting any real value from shove since he isn't folding any higher ace at the end.

    My main thinking for this is that there simply isn't enough left in the effective stacks to profitably bluff this river. That and the combination of hands we made it to the flop that beats his AQ or AK is incredibly small. You've only got 4 combinations of straights (34s) in your range (if you even called the preflop raise with that, which he could convince himself you'd have folded pre, giving him more incentive to call) and, if you had made it to the flop with these in your range, you'd probably have folded them to the turn bet. With that in mind, a shove would really be representing a slow played set of 2's or a two pair hand like A2s or A5s (maybe 6's though I think Hero would raise that pre instead of limping or raise the turn instead of calling). There are so few combinations of hands in our range that beat him and so many more that missed--which we'd try to bluff with to get him to fold his second pair hands and junk--that Villain would hate calling but would have to with any A he made it to the end with and he'd fold everything else which we already have beaten. If stack sizes were different then maybe you could get him to fold his A's at the end, but with like 3/4 of a PSB he'd have to call. So you got to be happy to check. Take the SDV and hope he made it with the weaker part of his range.
  • mbehr1983mbehr1983 Red Chipper Posts: 635 ✭✭✭
    I tried to post mine twice with no avail.I check the river as well
  • grindngrindn Red Chipper Posts: 74 ✭✭
    Preflop Range: 77+, A10+, K10+, Q10+, J10+ (16%)

    Flop: :As :6h :2c

    Flop CB Range: A10+,KK (36%)

    Turn: :Jh

    Turn Betting Range: A10+ (33%)

    River: :5d

    River Checking Range: A10 (2%)

    ...and as-played I would Check Behind when he checks
  • EazzyEazzy Red Chipper Posts: 915 ✭✭✭✭
    Hi Split

    I don't quite see the purpose of this exercise....I think your looking at the wrong thing when your calculating the % he continues to bet with....This is completely useless information...

    Instead you should be looking at the ratio of Top pair hands, to draws to bluff catchers, to air that is in his range at the flop turn and river....and how each part stacks up to my hand...
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