Hand 5: XX on 853

NinjahNinjah Red Chipper Posts: 1,048 ✭✭✭✭
Opening range: 66+, 76s+, ATo+, ATs+, A4s and A5s. Opening 216 combos at 16%.

With 2 limpers already in and a terrible player in the BB who will likely check his option, there are several hands I would consider limping in with. Hands such as 55 or less, connectors less than 76s, suited one gappers, and KTs are hands that I would limp behind with.

FLOP: :8d :5c :3d

Now down to 204 combos after the flop. MP1's lead tells me he caught a piece of the board (pair, SD, FD, set) which also makes sense since he limp/called preflop. I am raising my overpairs of JJ or better, sets, 7d6d combo draw, Ad5d, and Ad4d. Getting 3:1 I would defend with AJ+, flush draws, and pocket pairs 77, 99, and TT. Total combos heading to the turn would be 105 of 204 at a 51% frequency. I think proceeding with a lower frequency here is fine since the board connects with his range much better than ours as well as him donking the flop. If he checked to me, my frequency would be much higher here.

TURN: :6s

This is yet another card that more likely to improve his range than ours so I am okay with checking behind here the majority of the time. I would give consideration to betting JJ+, sets, 7d6d, and Ad4d. Combos and %: N/A since checking, bringing 105 flop combos to the river.

RIVER: :Ah

Calling with top pair strong/weak kicker and 99+. Raising sets and A5 (two pair). Folding my middle pairs of 8's and 77. Total raise/defend 72 out of 105 combos for a 69% frequency. I expect villain to show up here with sometimes with two pair and an occasional set but I also think a huge part of his range is made up of a pair of 8's, weak aces, small pp, and busted pair/straight draw combos such as 87 and 67 as well as some busted flush draws.

Comments

  • DieterDieter Red Chipper Posts: 11 ✭✭
    preflop I tend to iso quite large since I think they are playing fit or fold postflop.
    20% - 270combo's

    FLOP: :8d :5c :3d

    I would mostely raise with my draws since he might be giving up with all junk that is still ahead of my range.

    I call around 45.1% a total of 115 combos.

    TURN: :6s

    Since our villain is spewy I bet most of my range here since I'm likely to get value from worse hands. I check behind with 21.4% and 24 combo's. (weak top pairs, 77, 76 & some A5 & A3 hands)

    RIVER: :8D:

    On this river I tend to fold most cards I checked the turn with. I might contemplate in calling some two pair hands like A3 or A5 wich results in 13% & just three combo's.
  • AcesaladAcesalad Red Chipper Posts: 240 ✭✭
    PREFLOP: RANGE
    88+,AKo-ATo,KQo-KJo,AKs-A2s,KQs-K8s,QJs-QTs,JTs,J9s-97s,T9s-65s
    (17%-form)(226 combos)
    I want to raise fairly wide hear to iso including suited aces and some suited connectors to allow him to spew if I hit a straight or a flush.

    :8d :5c :3d

    FLOP: RANGE
    AA-88,AKo-AQo,AKs-AQs, A8s, K8s, T8s,98s,87s,76s,AdJd,AdTd,Ad9d,Ad7d,Ad6d,Ad5d,Ad4d,Ad2d,KdQd,KdJd,KdTd,Kd9d,QdJd,QdTd,JdTd,Jd9d,Td9d,9d7d,6d5d
    (56.8%-of previous range)(109 combos)
    I have the flush draw so I am calling with all of them and with my over pairs and my set. I don't see the need to raise the set here, it may scare him off.

    :6s

    TURN: RANGE
    88,AKo-Aqo ,A8s,K8s,T8s,98s,87s,76s,Ad6d,KdQd,KdJd,KdTd,Kd9d,QdJd, QdTd,JdTd,Jd9d,Td9d
    (50.9%-of previous range)(55 combos)
    Here I am betting my over pairs and probably should bet my set of 8's (I don't know why I put it in my range here) checking back my over cards and flush draws to take the free card.

    :Ah

    RIVER: RANGE
    AKo-AQo
    (37.5%-of previous range)(18 combos)
    I don't have much left in my range to call with here but AKo and AQo could be good here against spewy. I messed up and 88 should be here too, somehow I missed it when I did this exercise.
  • OutlierOutlier Red Chipper Posts: 143 ✭✭
    PREFLOP RANGE: 13%, 157 combos
    FLOP RANGE: 71%, 107 combos
    TURN RANGE: 88%, 94 combos
    RIVER RANGE: 62%, 50 combos

    PRELOP RANGE: 13%, 157 combos
    77+, 76s+, J9s+, KTs+, A8s+, AJo+
    I prefer to raise with suited connectors to secure postflop position, but overlimp with suited aces to invite in weaker suited cards.

    FLOP: :8d :5c :3d
    FLOP RANGE: 71%, 107 combos
    77-TT, 76s, 87s, 98s-KQs (cc and dd only); A9s+, AJo+, KTs, KJs, QTs, J9s, T9s (cc and dd only)
    I'm assuming zero fold equity here, so I'm raising only for value, though I probably raise nfd + 2 overs.

    TURN: :6s
    TURN RANGE: 88%, 94 combos
    76s, 87s, 98s-KQs (cc and dd only); A9s+, AJo+, KTs, KJs, QTs, J9s, T9s (cc and dd only)
    Again, I assume almost no fold equity, so I'm betting most top pairs and checking back the rest.

    RIVER: :8D:
    RIVER RANGE: 62%, 50 combos
    A9s+, AJo+, 98s, 87s, 76s
    Very polarized bet from villain, though his value range includes many single Aces he thinks are the nuts, imo. I call with all top pairs and middle pairs, as I think this super spewy villain can have almost all random missed flush draws in his range.
  • OutlierOutlier Red Chipper Posts: 143 ✭✭
    @Dieter, question about your flop play: why would you raise your draws? It's difficult to imagine you have any fold equity vs this villain and action, and your draws are ahead of his junk, anyway.

    @Acesalad I think you can make a case for checking top set, but against this villain? It just seems like he's NEVER folding on the flop so why not get more $$ in now?
  • AcesaladAcesalad Red Chipper Posts: 240 ✭✭
    Outlier wrote: »
    I think you can make a case for checking top set, but against this villain? It just seems like he's NEVER folding on the flop so why not get more $$ in now?
    You make a good point. I was trying to imagine just how spewy this opponent is. Looking back at the opening sentence for the exercise, I probably should push to build the pot on the flop with top set.
  • BadFrog1BadFrog1 Red Chipper Posts: 136 ✭✭
    In my experience, a small-medium donk bet is usually a marginal made hand. On this flop, maybe something like J8 or TT. For that reason, I'm raising all my draws and barreling most turns.
  • mbehr1983mbehr1983 Red Chipper Posts: 635 ✭✭✭
    Preflop AA-77,AKo-ATo,KQo-KJo,AKs-A8s,KQs-K9s,QJs-QTs,JTs
    Limp with 22-66 and have some KT in my range 14.3% and 172 combos
    F :8d :5c :3d
    AA-77,AKo-ATo,AKs-A8s,KdQd,KdJd,KdTd,Kd9d,QdJd,QdTd,JdTd
    I am raising with overpairs and nut draws with AQ i am floating 73% 123 combos
    T :6s
    AA-77,AKo-ATo,AKs-A8s,KdQd,KdJd,KdTd,Kd9d,QdJd,QdTd,JdTd 123 since it checks through
    R :Ah
    AA-88,AKo-ATo,AKs-A8s its a high 87% 89/102 combos
  • GregGreg Red Chipper Posts: 32 ✭✭
    PREFLOP: RANGE
    BEP 67%
    AA-88,AKo-A9o,KQo-KTo,QJo-QTo,JTo,AKs-A2s,KQs-K9s,QJs-Q9s,JTs-J9s,T9s-T8s,98s,87s
    (20.7%-of previous range)(274 combos)

    :8d :5c :3d

    FLOP: RANGE
    PO 25%
    AKo-A9o,KQo-KTo,QJo-QTo,JTo,AKs-A9s,A5s-A2s,KQs-K9s,QJs-Q9s,JTs-J9s,T9s-T8s,98s,87s,Ac8c,Ac7c,Ac6c
    (82.3%-of previous range)(218 combos)

    :6s

    TURN: RANGE
    check back- lost flush draws and overcards i bluffed
    AKo-A9o,AKs-A9s,A5s-A2s,K9s,Q9s,J9s,T9s-T8s,98s,87s,Ac8c,Ac7c,Ac6c,KdQd,KdJd,KdTd,QdJd,QdTd,JdTd,[75]KQo-KTo,QJo-QTo,JTo,KhQh,KcQc,KsQs,KhJh,KcJc,KsJs,KhTh,KcTc,KsTs,QhJh,QcJc,QsJs,QhTh,QcTc,QsTs,JhTh,JcTc,JsTs[/75]
    (56%-of previous range)(122combos)

    :Ah

    RIVER: RANGE
    PO 32%
    AKo-A9o,AKs-A9s,Ac7c
    (62.2%-of previous range)(61combos)
    I never raise because imo he has mostly 2 pair hands and missed draws. I think he isolates AT+, maybe A9 pre. I think he bets turn with A7 & A4 because he picked up open ended draw. So only A left in his range is A2 which probably doesn't call a raise.
  • MonticoreMonticore Red Chipper Posts: 1
    What we do preflop and postflop here depends on what type of spewy whale we're dealing with. If we assume he always calls pre and gets sticky post, but doesn't fold much, we really shouldn't be isoing w/ hands like 67s,66, etc. On the flop when he donks we can give him pairs 8x and below, FD's, and some open enders. I don't really have much of a calling range here b/c my iso range is going to be nutted. I'm raising 8x+,FD's and probably folding everything else (unless this whale will fold pairs). If he'll fold pairs (assuming he won't) then we can raise and barrel (i.e. if he donks 77 and folds to a raise). But calling w/ AQ vs a merged range drawing to 6 outs that may not even be live all the time (i.e. he donks w/ A5s) is a recipe for disaster.
  • Briax24Briax24 Red Chipper Posts: 44 ✭✭
    Hand #5
    Pre-Flop: Range: AA-22,AKo-ATo,KQo,AKs-A2s,KQs-KTs,QJs-QTs,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,76s (% of form 17%) (Combos: 226)
    I am raising all of the hands I choose to play. I don’t really have much of a limping range unless I think I am exploiting someone. I think I generally live by the Ed Miller advice from “The Course” and online videos. I am raising all my AXs, 76s+, and KTs. Is there a reason to limp some hands outside of my raising range vs. this Villain?

    :8d :5c :3d

    FLOP: Range: 77-66,A8s,A5s,98s,87s,76s,AhKh,AcKc,AsKs,AhQh,AcQc,AsQs,AsKh,AhKs,AdKs,AsQh,AhQs,AdQs
    (% of previous range: 20.8%) (Combos: 40)
    Overpairs: I like raising here in case Villain is leading with flush draws with overs. With a Spewy opponent I think I’m starting to want to commit with my big overs like AA-JJ. I can imagine some good scenarios where It goes raise/ called then it goes check/ shove on the turn.
    Flush Draws: I am raising all of these as well. I may get him to muck some bigger draws and some over cards that are ahead now. With my higher ranking flush draws I think I am content to build a pot against a range that contains a lot of top pair, middle pair, and draws.
    Ace Queen: I call with my blank AQ and AQcc, I probably raise the backdoor diamonds hoping to take the pot away on the turn when a diamond comes or catch up. I think I could call with something like AxQd rather than raise due to not having the backdoor nut draw. I also get some immediate folds.
    Note: This calling range is pretty weak.

    :6s

    TURN: Range: 77,A5s,98s,87s,76s,AhKh,AcKc,AsKs,AhQh,AcQc,AsQs,AsKh,AhKs,AdKs,AsQh,AhQs,AdQs
    (% of previous range 83.3%) (Combos:30)
    I think this 6s hits my range pretty softly. The Villains range picks up a lot more drawing hands so he retains equity vs. me pretty well here.
    Single Pairs: I think I bet A8 for value here; I don’t hold any overpairs. The other 8x in my range is in trouble vs. Villains 8x. Many of his hands have good equity vs. me. It might be correct to keep betting all 8x because Villain has tons of draws.
    Flush Draws: I have 2, I think I bet them, maybe planning to bluff off-suit overs on the river. I don’t expect too many folds on the turn but I think it’s close enough combined with the flush draw equity. Both of my draws contain pairs. A5/76.
    Overcards: I think I am aiming for showdown here, maybe some bluffs on over-card rivers.

    :Ah
    RIVER: Range: A5s,98s,87s,AcKc,AsKs,AcQc,AsQs,AsKh,AdKs,AsQh,AdQs (% of previous range 64%) (Combos:16)
    I have arrived at this river with 16 combos that I can consider calling with. 8 top pair good kicker, 2 Two pair, and 6 middle pair. The situation is read dependent. I have to now decide how often the Villain is bluffing. He has a lot of missed draws and might get tricky with weak pairs turned into bluffs. If this is the case I call with my entire range. If he is a not much of a bluffer I probably fold my entire range. I put my bluff catching range above.
  • Briax24Briax24 Red Chipper Posts: 44 ✭✭
    Monticore wrote: »
    What we do preflop and postflop here depends on what type of spewy whale we're dealing with. If we assume he always calls pre and gets sticky post, but doesn't fold much, we really shouldn't be isoing w/ hands like 67s,66, etc. On the flop when he donks we can give him pairs 8x and below, FD's, and some open enders. I don't really have much of a calling range here b/c my iso range is going to be nutted. I'm raising 8x+,FD's and probably folding everything else (unless this whale will fold pairs). If he'll fold pairs (assuming he won't) then we can raise and barrel (i.e. if he donks 77 and folds to a raise). But calling w/ AQ vs a merged range drawing to 6 outs that may not even be live all the time (i.e. he donks w/ A5s) is a recipe for disaster.

    I'm raising the weaker pairs and all my Ax pre. My motivation isn't so much to iso the Villain but to try to get position. I certainly expect to get called sometimes by the button but even LAG doesn't HAVE to come along. If I'm going to limp I think it would be some outside the box stuff i.e. K6s. I probably stay away from the kind of play in this spot because of my position.
    I do want to raise with some of my AQ and AK type stuff on this flop. It would mostly be those hands with backdoor potential. I think this shows a good deal of strength against our opponents capped range and there are some good jamming opportunities on the turn. This serves to balance our raises with sets and overpairs as well. I generally call with my 8x and maybe like 99 and lower pocket pairs. That said I think you may be on to something with not having much of a calling range. Mine turns out to be pretty weak.

  • Briax24Briax24 Red Chipper Posts: 44 ✭✭
    @Greg I'm concerned that by splitting your range in this spot your limping range may become pretty transparent. An observant player can fold on many low boards to your raise correctly. Villain is probably not observant but that LAQ on the button can probably do some harm to your limping range. I left out the suited hands like K9,Q9, and J9. There is probably some merit to including them in my range vs. this Villain.
  • GregGreg Red Chipper Posts: 32 ✭✭
    @Briax24 Hand 5 only gives us the choice of an isolation range. My starting range is all the hands I'm isolating with. I would usually always try to isolate the bad player to get him heads up with position if I'm going to play.
  • Briax24Briax24 Red Chipper Posts: 44 ✭✭
    @Greg The question was "Which Hands would you raise two limpers to 35 with?" Are you limping the rest or the hands or using a different sizing?
  • GregGreg Red Chipper Posts: 32 ✭✭
    @Briax24 Personally i'm not a fan of limping behind here. My main goal is to isolate the spewey player with my entire range. It might not be right but over limping always seems to be a -ev play for me unless i have a specific reason.
  • gwjones00gwjones00 Red Chipper Posts: 27
    Question for the group here - I see a lot of discussion about iso raising preflop. What I am missing is that we have two players left to act, and at least one off them (BTN) seems to be a competent LAG who is also trying to target the spewtard. If we start opening wide to iso, aren't we opening ourselves up to being exploited by the LAG behind us?

    I opt to tighten up my open raising range a little. We are MP2 with 950 stack. EP1 and MP1 limps. We raise to $35.

    YOUR PREFLOP RANGE
    88+, ATs+, KJs+, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, AJo+, KJo+, QJo
    %-FORM 11.6 %
    COMBOS # 154

    Are we more likely to raise with small PPs? With CO TAG and BTN LAG, I’m going to limp call small PPs. (77-)
    Suited connectors? Maybe 98+
    KTs? Yes.
    AXs? ATs+, A5s

    Only MP1 calls preflop.

    Flop: 8d5c3d. MP1 bets $40. We call. Are we more or less likely to raise with:
    Overpairs: Raise
    Flush draws: Call
    Ace Queen: Call

    YOUR FLOP RANGE
    88+, AKs, AdQd-AdTd, KdJd+, QdJd, JdTd, Td9d, 98s, AdKs, AdKh, AdKc, AsKd, AhKd, AcKd, AdQs, AdQh, AdQc, AsQd, AhQd, AcQd, AdJs, AdJh, AdJc, KdQs, KdQh, KdQc, KsQd, KhQd, KcQd, KdJs, KdJh, KdJc, KsJd, KhJd, KcJd, QdJs, QdJh, QdJc, QsJd, QhJd, QcJd
    % OF PREVIOUS RANGE: 55% (6.86%)
    COMBOS # 87

    Hero calls. Turn 6s. MP1 checks and we check

    YOUR TURN RANGE
    88, AKs, AdQd-AdTd, KdJd+, QdJd, JdTd, Td9d, 98s, AdKs, AdKh, AdKc, AsKd, AhKd, AcKd, AdQs, AdQh, AdQc, AsQd, AhQd, AcQd, AdJs, AdJh, AdJc, KdQs, KdQh, KdQc, KsQd, KhQd, KcQd, KdJs, KdJh, KdJc, KsJd, KhJd, KcJd, QdJs, QdJh, QdJc, QsJd, QhJd, QcJd
    % OF PREVIOUS RANGE: 59% (4.15%)
    COMBOS # 51

    Is the 6 more likely to improve my range or MP1’s?: It’s more likely to improve MP1’s range. The fact that I have a couple of competent players behind me means that I had to tighten my range preflop. A six shouldn’t improve my range. MP1 on the other hand is super spewey - so this hits his range (OESD is now a pair and an OESD, flopped pairs and gutters now turn into OESDs, etc.

    When MP1 checks, are we going to bet or check with:

    Single pairs: Bet
    Flush draws: Bet
    Overcards: Bet

    I will be turning a lot into a bluff here to attack villains weak range.

    River Ah. Villain leads for $150 (pot sized bet).

    YOUR RIVER RANGE
    88, AKs, AdQd-AdTd, 98s, AdKs, AdKh, AdKc, AsKd, AhKd, AcKd, AdQs, AdQh, AdQc, AsQd, AhQd, AcQd, AdJs, AdJh, AdJc
    % OF PREVIOUS RANGE: 50% (2.41%)
    COMBOS # 25

    Are we more likely to call or raise with:

    Top pair + strong kicker:
    Top pair + weak kicker:
    Middle pair:

    I’m calling with all 3. I think raising only guarantees a call from a better hand.

    Comments welcome.
  • NuttedNutterNuttedNutter Red Chipper Posts: 44
    HAND #5

    With this specific dynamic being that we have a nit in EP1, Super Spewy MP1, a tag and lag behind us that both cover, another nit in SB and a random terrible BB w/ an average stack.

    I think I'd limp behind something like 22-55, 76s, A4s-A5s. The Btn lag that covers is a bit concerning since he as well is actively trying to stack Super Spewy MP1. Being that he's aware that we are trying to do the same he'll likely be ranging us and if we raise too wide in this position we leave ourselves vulnerable to a 3bet. I also think that CO tag and SB super nit could also very well wake up with a nutted hand and 3bet putting us in a not so favorable situation oop to them. I think these hands play well post flop and are a bit disguised. I think they are hands that are a toss up between raise/call.

    Raise? 66-AA, 87s-AKs, J9s-K9s, QTs-KTs, KJs, A8s-AQs, AJo-AKo, KQo

    RANGE: AA-QQ,99,AQo,AQs,KQs,QJs-QTs,JcTc,JdTd,JsTs
    %FORM: 15.8%
    COMBOS #: 210

    FLOP: :8d :5c :3d

    Overpairs? Raise. 99-AA. With this board texture and a super spewy calling range pf I'd say it's between 60-70% of hands. So I think he'll call a raise with any tp from 86o/s-87o/s, 89o/s-A8o/s, 77-66 maybe. 2nd pair+draw hands like 54s-65s or 2nd pair-gk like J5o/s-A5o/s.

    As far as bottom pair hands like J3o/s-A3o/s, well it would be terrible and maybe even super folds to a raise here with that part of his range? But he also got felted twice and is in for round 3 so let's say that yes he is capable of even peeling once with those hands as terrible as it may seem.

    In fact yeah, who am I kidding we all know we've seen these types at the tables the guys who station it up and river a random overcard for 2pair to bust your overpair lol! Let's assume that yes indeed it is super spewy that guy.

    He's got 40 combos of flushdraws that'll continue, of which 15 combos have overcards in them so definitely calling flop with that part of range. Then there's 16 combos of 76 for the OESD and several combos of gutshots A2, A4, 97.

    Flushdraws? Call. We have position and plenty of combos to hit a nutted flush that are at least T high and a combo draw w/ 7d6d. If I raise I don't see this guy ever folding so no fold equity to be had here.

    AQ? Fold. Well I'd be more inclined to fold here, I'm not entirely sure should we be calling here w/ position just drawing to hit an A or Q or do we assume that this vill is so bad that he just leading w/ complete air and didn't even hit the board so our Ace high is good and we have SD value?

    RANGE: AA-55,33,A8s,98s,87s,76s,AdKd,AdQd,AdJd,AdTd,Ad9d,Ad5d,Ad4d,KdQd,KdJd,KdTd,Kd9d,QdJd,QdTd,Qd9d,JdTd,Jd9d,Td9d

    %OF PREVIOUS RANGE: 41.5%
    COMBOS #: 78

    T: :6s

    Does 6s more likely improve mine or vill's range? Looks like the 6s improves vill's range more than mine since 97 just made a str8, 65 and 86 give super spewy 2pair. 66 gives him a set of 6's. 77, 87, A4 hands like Td7d-Ad7d, Jd4d-Kd4d that were previously just flushdraws now pick up additional equity giving vill a combo draw w/ OESD's. All flushdraws will continue as well.

    My range at this point is weighted more towards overpairs, some top pairs, flushdraws and a few OESD's. Overall it appears villain's range has improved a bit more than ours.

    Bet or check w/...

    Single Pairs? Bet 99-AA, A8s I'd evaluate and maybe fold to a decent size raise. I would check behind 87s, 98s and 77.

    Flush Draws? Check. Although I could see the value in building a pot w/ the nutty combos of FD's in my range, I just don't see him folding that often at all, I think if he's hit the board in any way w/ the turn giving him additional equity it's almost zero fold equity I'm thinking.

    Overcards? Check. Same lack of fold equity reason as above.

    RANGE: AA-55,33,A8s,98s,87s,76s,AdKd,AdQd,AdJd,AdTd,Ad9d,Ad5d,Ad4d,KdQd,KdJd,KdTd,Kd9d,QdJd,QdTd,Qd9d,JdTd,Jd9d,Td9d

    %OF PREVIOUS RANGE: 100%
    COMBOS#: 75

    R: :Ah

    Based on line to riv more likely to call/raise w/...

    TPSK: I think I'd call w/ A9s-AKs we still beat a few Aces that he's still capable of value betting, we still beat A2s, A4s, A7s, 87, 98-K8, maybe but unlikely 99-QQ limp called pre, bet flop checked turn out of fear of being out drawn by a str8 and now thinks there's no way we have an Ace and that his 99-QQ are good, but more than likely raises those pre so at any rate we beat those.

    TPWK: Although at this point in time I wouldn't feel too comfortable about it I'd probably still call since it appears the bulk of his range is weighted towards single pair 8's and I think he's still capable of value betting those since the turn went ch/ch he might have checked a weak 8 fearing I have him out kicked or an overpair and he may likely think the Ah is an arbitrary safe card for him.

    I'm not too worried about 2pair since I think A8 would've bet turn since at that point it would've been TPTK and I think he'd have kept firing with his stronger 8's like say J8s-A8s. By the same token I think 65 and 86 would've also bet turn so I don't think he has those. So the only 2pair's I'm concerned about are A5s, A6s and there's only 1 combo of both. So it appears more likely to me that he's betting riv here with a weak 8?

    Middle Pair? Call with 99-QQ since I think at this point in the hand he's betting riv w/ 87, 98-K8. 98, 87 I might call but might tie with those.

    RANGE: AA-88,66-55,33,A8s,98s,87s,AdKd,AdQd,AdJd,AdTd,Ad9d,Ad5d,Ad4d

    %OF PREVIOUS RANGE: 75%
    COMBOS#: 54

    Thoughts? Ty.














  • stumptownstumptown Red Chipper Posts: 3 ✭✭
    om HJ with lag button and bad player in the BB, not a good dynamic to iso wide range. Button will look for reasons to call, assuming that spew target will too, and bad player in the BB will do what bad players do - find an excuse to call. Multiway oop is not the time to widen our range; this is not an iso play, my raise here is for value only.

    With a spewy player as a target our iso range should get wider with a chance to get heads up(on CO or Button) as wide as we want if spewy is fit or fold, but weighted more toward value the more he fights back. If the players to our left were more weak tight, we could iso more aggro, but not here imo. I know in the hand example we do get it heads up, but this scenario is not likely in the loose live games I'm used to.

    I spent a lot of time pondering the preflop range, and found some good help here:


    finally decided that this is not a good iso situation, so raising for pure value.
    Preflop 88 combos 8%
    88+ KQ+ AQ+ AJ+
    imping behind small PP, KTs, AXs6 hits his wide range much more than my tight range.


    Turn
    betting single pairs and flush draws , checking the rest. Ace high has showdown value here, all my flush draws have added equity as they are all overcards.
    calling with all but K

    workbook says we check the turn, betting range would be: 43 combos 42%

    River
    calling with all but K high hands: TP and 88+ 82% 72 combos of river checked range.

    my preflop range is much tighter than most on this hand. Is this missing a good spot to isolate wider? Sure, it isolated in the pretend world of the workbook, but in a live game?

    Isn't one of the main points of the video above to widen your range heads up against fit-or-fold players, and tighten up when multiway looks likely and/or playing against loose players who make postflop more difficult? Here, we're potentially oop and multiway (esp live) not a good spot for AXs and SCs.

    have I twisted a good concept into a bad interpretation?








  • gwjones00gwjones00 Red Chipper Posts: 27
    Thoughts? Ty.

    We are actually pretty close (my hand above). Because I have a competent LAG behind me, I play a little tighter (PF Range 11.6%, continue on the flop with 55% of PF range, continue the turn with 59% of flop range). By the time I get to the river, I have 25 combos remaining in my range.

    I am used to playing live low stakes where bluffing frequencies are just way too low. I'm amazed at how wide some of the people here are opening.
  • gwjones00gwjones00 Red Chipper Posts: 27
    stumptown wrote: »
    my preflop range is much tighter than most on this hand. Is this missing a good spot to isolate wider? Sure, it isolated in the pretend world of the workbook, but in a live game?

    Isn't one of the main points of the video above to widen your range heads up against fit-or-fold players, and tighten up when multiway looks likely and/or playing against loose players who make postflop more difficult? Here, we're potentially oop and multiway (esp live) not a good spot for AXs and SCs.

    have I twisted a good concept into a bad interpretation?

    I struggle with this too. I play live low stakes in L.A. where the stacks are (usually) short and players don't fold. Then in this hand, with a competent LAG behind me, if he recognizes I am iso raising, her can make life difficult post flop.

    I am amazed at how wide some people are opening in these exercises.
  • NuttedNutterNuttedNutter Red Chipper Posts: 44
    gwjones00 wrote: »
    stumptown wrote: »
    my preflop range is much tighter than most on this hand. Is this missing a good spot to isolate wider? Sure, it isolated in the pretend world of the workbook, but in a live game?

    Isn't one of the main points of the video above to widen your range heads up against fit-or-fold players, and tighten up when multiway looks likely and/or playing against loose players who make postflop more difficult? Here, we're potentially oop and multiway (esp live) not a good spot for AXs and SCs.

    have I twisted a good concept into a bad interpretation?

    I struggle with this too. I play live low stakes in L.A. where the stacks are (usually) short and players don't fold. Then in this hand, with a competent LAG behind me, if he recognizes I am iso raising, her can make life difficult post flop.

    I am amazed at how wide some people are opening in these exercises.

    Ty for feedback, let me take a look at the video posted and review this spot.
  • AcesaladAcesalad Red Chipper Posts: 240 ✭✭
    Had some trouble with this one
    PREFLOP: (22.8%-form)(302 combos)
    AA-22,AKo-A8o,KQo-KJo,AKs-A2s,KQs-K7s,QJs-Q9s,JTs-J9s,T9s-T8s,98s-97s,87s-86s,76s-75s,65s
    Opening a little wider than usual from the Hijack because of Super Spewy.
    Which hands would you raise two limpers to $35 with? Are you more likely to raise or limp behind with small pocket pairs? What about suited connectors, KTs, and AXs?
    small PP, Raise or Limp Raise
    SCs, KTs, and AXs, Raise or Limp Raise
    Flop:
    :8D: :5C: :3D:

    Only MP1 calls you preflop. There are 2 players to a $80 flop
    When MP1 bets you are getting 3:1 on a call. Are you more likely to raise or call with:
    Overpairs? Raise
    Flush Draws? Call
    Ace-Queen Call
    % of Previous Range 33.6% # Combos 94
    AA-88,55,33,A8o,A8s,K8s,T8s,98s,87s thru 86s,AdKd,AdQd,AdJd,AdTd,Ad9d,Ad5d,Ad4d,Ad2d,KdQd,KdJd,KdTd,Kd9d,QdJd,QdTd,Qd9d,JdTd,Jd9d,Td9d,9d7d,7d6d,7d5d,6d5d
    You call the flop bet. There are 2 players to a $160 turn
    Turn:
    :6S:
    MP1 checks and you check behind.
    Is the 6 more likely to improve MP1's range or your range
    His range, there is almost nothing in mine that the 6 helps
    When MP1 checks are you going to check or bet with:
    Single Pairs? Overpairs bet, TP check
    Flush Draws? Check
    Overcards? Don't have any

    % of Previous Range 49.5% # Combos 46
    A8o,A8s,K8s,T8s,98s,87s,AdKd,AdQd,AdJd,AdTd,Ad9d,Ad5d,Ad4d,Ad2d,KdQd,KdJd,KdTd,Kd9d,QdJd,QdTd,Qd9d,JdTd,Jd9d,Td9d,9d7d,7d6d,7d5d,6d5d
    There are 2 players to a $160 river
    River:
    :AH:
    MP1 bets $150 and you call.
    Based upon the line you took leading up to the river, are you more likely to call or raise with:
    Top Pair + Strong Kicker? Raise
    Top Pair + Weak Kicker? Call
    Middle Pair? Call
    % of Previous Range 13.0% # Combos 6
    AdJd,AdTd,Ad9d,Ad5d,Ad4d,Ad2d
  • TravisTravis Red Chipper Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    PreFlop: raising as below... not likely to limp behind with much because of players behind though with suited connectors and some suited broadways I might as a limp call range
    23.4% -310 combo's
    AA-44,AKo-ATo,KQo-KJo,QJo,AKs-A2s,KQs-K2s,QJs-Q9s,JTs-J9s,T9s-T8s,98s-97s,87s-86s,76s-75s,65s-64s,54s-53s

    FLOP: :8d :5c :3d 74% 230 combos
    AA-55,AKo-ATo,KQo-KJo,QJo,AKs-A8s,A5s-A4s,A2s,KQs-K8s,K5s,QJs-Q9s,JTs-J9s,T9s-T8s,98s-97s,87s-86s,76s-75s,65s-64s,54s-53s,Ac7c,Ad7d,Ac6c,Ad6d,Ac3c,Kc7c,Kd7d,Kc6c,Kd6d,Kc4c,Kd4d,Kc3c,Kc2c,Kd2d
    Call with most of range to not give away hand strength against a spewy player,,, reraise sets some of the time

    TURN: :6s 100%
    6 is better for opponents range .. I would still bet straights 97 and sets the rest of range happy to realize my equity checking behind

    RIVER: :8D 54% 124 Combos
    Easy card to bluff.. and pot sized bets is very polarizing nuts or air Calling with 8x+
    AA-88,AKo-ATo,AKs-A8s,A6s-A4s,A2s,97s,86s,65s,53s,Ac7c,Ad7d,Ac3c
  • itsgoldenitsgolden Red Chipper Posts: 34 ✭✭
    @Travis What adjustments are you making in this situation with a spewy player acting in front of you and a TAG and LAG acting behind? I'm wondering what range do you usually open compared to what range do you open in this type of situation, with this dynamic and spewy player.

    I find that when I have a spewy player on my right I usually just tighten up and resort to playing nitty and straightforward. I'm assuming this player is a calling station and calling down light so I want to set myself up to have strong holdings against them. So for me I am a lot more nitty than usual. I realize I have a TAG and LAG behind me so I also want to have strong holdings to be able to stick around or play back in the event that they decide to reraise. This is how I adjust and I find it to be profitable but I don't know if it's optimal. What is your rationale behind your opening range here? Do you find it to be profitable? Why might it be more profitable than going with a more nitty range in this spot? I'm curious because I think I'm definitely playing too tight here but want to understand the reasoning behind opening a wider range.


    Here's what I got...uscdn9dowuds.jpg


  • TravisTravis Red Chipper Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    @itsgolden
    Against spewy players I loosen up if anything. Picking hands that can take stacks... So As suited is a 3bet, I will play suited connectors and on gaps that have a 5 or 10...
    On this particular hand my range stayed fairly typical, because most people react to a spewy player as you described, they tighten up. So TAG likely playing tighter and even LAG his forced to play a bit tighter and fit or fold because of spewy.
    Also when people are targeting a specific bad player, I tend to target them. These situations like this hand are where I am looking to double up or stack someone
  • itsgoldenitsgolden Red Chipper Posts: 34 ✭✭
    Travis wrote: »
    @itsgolden
    Against spewy players I loosen up if anything. Picking hands that can take stacks... So As suited is a 3bet, I will play suited connectors and on gaps that have a 5 or 10...
    On this particular hand my range stayed fairly typical, because most people react to a spewy player as you described, they tighten up. So TAG likely playing tighter and even LAG his forced to play a bit tighter and fit or fold because of spewy.
    Also when people are targeting a specific bad player, I tend to target them. These situations like this hand are where I am looking to double up or stack someone

    That sounds reasonable. Most of my experience is playing 100BB or less. I'm guessing I need to revisit my opening range in this spot and not be as tight- play more pairs, suited connectors, suited aces, and kings. I think my range is in a 100BB or less type of mindset, in this spot we are 190 effective so maybe my range is way too tight. I think we're not going for TPTK or an overpair to stack spewy player but more so for flushes, straights, and trips. Although, in the right situation TPTK or an overpair would do the job.

    What do you think @Travis ? Does this reasoning make sense? Would you play a bit tighter if you were 100BB effective in this spot instead of 190 or am I just being a nit?
  • TravisTravis Red Chipper Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    @itsgolden
    I suggest starting with pocket pairs. They don't usually require multiple streets so can be fit or fold knowing you will get paid. Normally want 10:1 implied odds with a pocket pair, but against spewy and others who can't fold big pairs I don't mind going down to 8:1 (sometimes less as they are never folding) also if others call preflop it lowers needed implied odds.
    She it comes to suited connectors, I believe they are not all created equal. I target ones with a 5 or 10 including one gappers over the middle connectors. Having the key card for a straight is a significant factor both in making straights and blocking opponents from hitting straights
  • Raymond JongkindRaymond Jongkind Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
    PREFLOP: RANGE (5.28%-form)(70# combos)
    AA-TT,AKo-AQo,AKs-AJs,KQs

    :8d :5c :3d

    FLOP: RANGE (5.71%-of previous range)(4# combos)
    AdKd,AdQd,AdJd,KdQd
    When MP1 bets you are getting 3:1 (25%) on a call. Are you more likely to raise or call with:
    Overpairs? raise
    Flush Draws? call
    Ace Queen? fold
    Since my preflop range was pretty tight I have only my Flush draws left here.

    :6s

    TURN: RANGE (100%-of previous range)(4# combos)
    AdKd,AdQd,AdJd,KdQd
    Is the Six more likely to improve your range or MP1’s? When MP1 checks are you going to bet or check with:
    Single Pairs? bet
    Flush Draws? check
    Overcards? bet
    It improves his, but defenitely not mine. Thats why I go for a free card.

    :Ah

    RIVER: RANGE (100%-of previous range)(33# combos)
    AdKd,AdQd,AdJd
    Based upon the line you took leading up to the river, are you more likely to call or raise with:
    Top Pair + Strong Kicker? call
    Top Pair + Weak Kicker? call
    Middle Pair? fold
    I don't have much left in my range to call with here but AdXd could be good here against spewy.


    Notes after 5 hands
    It's funny to see how tight and nitty I am compared to everyone else. I have to work on that!
  • Mark FlemingMark Fleming Red Chipper Posts: 28 ✭✭
    edited May 27
    Hand #5 Section 1

    Preflop
    MP1 is acting the fish. EP1 and MP1 limp in, and I bet six BB, with four players yet to act so I have a made hand or one with potential.
    I would raise two limpers if I had AA-JJ,AKo-AJo,AKs-ATs,KQs-KJs,QJs,JTs
    If I had small pocket pairs I’d limp behind.
    If I had KTs I’d limp behind.
    As for suited connectors, I’d bet JTs,QJs,KJ+,
    I’d limp behind with A9s and bet with ATs+
    My range is AA-TT,AKo-AJo,AKs-ATs,KQs-KJs,QJs,JTs which is 98 combonations or 7%
    Only MP1 calls my bet. Is he playing lose again or is smartly slow playing?

    Post Flop :8d :3d :5c
    MP1 bets $40 (half pot) making it look like a value bet, implying he connected with board or he was indeed slow playing on the first street.
    I would call with over pairs TT-QQ and raise with KK and AA
    I would raise any Ax diamond suited and any diamond SC.
    I would fold AQo as well as AKo and AJo.
    My range is AA-TT,AKo-AJo,AKs-ATs,KQs-KJs,QJs,JTs:a1b4a10b2a12b1a13b1a125:a5b1a10:a16:a16 which is 34 combinations or 49% of the previous range.
    Turn :6s
    I called so I now only have TT-AA. MP1 checks so he was just chasing a draw and is now giving up so my TP is good for now but I may need to fold if the river is a scare card and MP1 bets into me again. I’m at 82% of my previous range and down to 30 combinations.
    I bet a half pot with all my pairs
    Flush draws: I bet a half pot more happily, when any of my pairs contains a diamond.
    River :Ah
    MP1 bets nearly the whole pot, so representing that the ace connected with his hand, which is a possible second pair. It feels like an attempted steal so I don't fold.
    I call with TP plus high kicker
    I call with TP plus weak kicker
    I call with all my pairs (middle pair is not in my range).
    I bet $225 with trip aces.
    In retrospect, I should have opened a much wider range because this is the kind of board that hits speculative hands and where a winning hand is disguised. I’m worried just a little that MP1 has done just that.
  • Joyce409Joyce409 Red Chipper Posts: 2 ✭✭
    Preflop I would open somewhat tight because the Button is targeting MP1 as well and I don't want to be out of position without decent cards. My range is all broadway hands, plus A9s, 99. That's 200 combos, 15%.

    Flop :8d :3d :5C:

    I will call with just about my entire range here. I'm in position against a spewy player, with overcards, possibly an overpair. I would call with everything in my previous range except for flush draws - for the diamond broadway hands plus A9d, all 11 of them, I would raise. Therefore my calling combos are 189, 94.5% of my previous range.

    Turn :6S:

    MP1 has slowed down and checked to me. With an over pair I would check - 36 combos hoping to get him to take a stab after the river, 19% of my previous range.

    If I had a flush draw or 2 overs not paired, I would be betting to see if I could get him out of the hand before another diamond comes on the river. Should I be concerned about a straight? Would Spewy MP1 have called $30 more preflop with a 79 or 47? Definitely not with 47. I would think with no one else in the pot, he would think 79 is not worth it as well.

    River :AH:

    Now he comes back to life with an almost pot-sized bet after the scare card Ah on the river. I hadn't thought too much about his cards until just now. Could he have trips for any of these cards? Sure...he could have checked the turn hoping to induce a bet and then raise. Could he have 2 pair now with the A? Absolutely. Definitely could have just hit the A as well. But considering how spewy he is, and that to play the way I have until now, I only have 99-AA, I am calling with everything except pocket A (99-KK). That's 30 combos, 83.3% of my previous range.

    Thoughts?

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