Mental advise help needed so bad..

JinplydbstJinplydbst Red Chipper Posts: 53
edited February 2 in General Concepts
I just lost my entire poker money bankroll.
Right now I am between jobs and right after I quit my job, I saved $2k to play live poker, because here where I live don't allow online poker, and only $1-2 live runs most of time.

Beginning It was good, I played tight and made it $1,400+.
Then in about 2-3weeks, I busted all my poker money and last night, I spent my Unemployment benefit to poker, where I busted 6 buy-ins..at 1-2 table.. Now I am so broke, and not sure When i can go back to table, or even make a live.

Myself, I read about 4-5 of miller's book, reading forum, watching coaching videos..
Studying harder when I lose. I think I know how to build Villains hand range, types and board textures.
Applying SPR and so on.
But the problem is I am not utilizing things I learned at the table.

In the beginning of a session, I play light, I don't know why, but If I get beat with good hand, I get so sticky with it.
Then, rebuy, rebuy...
Whenever I go, I set a game plan, whom not to bluff, when not to bluff, don't get too sticky with a pair on small SPR, but all this goes, "may be I can bluff this guy, or may be this time he will fold his top pair because board texture..." and fails most of time.

I know that only two breeds make money from this local casino 1-2 live. One who plays tight and one who plays wild and get lucky. I have been trying to challenge my self not too stay too tight or too loose, because i know that i know more things than other players on the table... and this thought is busting me. Isn't that so boring to think it is the only way to play poker at 1-2 live?


Now I am so lost, and I need to fix my brain.
First, I need to forget about the money I lost. Is there any good exercise or practice to strengthen the mental ability?
Or should I focus on reading more and more of mental poker books?
I regret that I should have paid poker coach this money to have 1:1 live coaching session...

Please give any advise that you guys have strong mental.
And, How do you guys fold after put decent amount money the pot with good hands, what questions do you ask yourself to fold the hand?

Thank you all, I am just so feeling bad and had to talk loud this.. :(

Comments

  • Jumbo DentonJumbo Denton Red Chipper Posts: 22
    Your post is great. You are not alone. The beauty of 1-2 is that you have nothing invested in the hand so you can sit and wait. I play with a large BB rate of 27 per hour. I pull this off by playing in position with premium hands. Two videos really help me and they are how to play Aq and the blinds. The videos helped me understand my hands and what hands I beat and which hands I don't. I am not afraid to fold to aggression nor am I afraid to bet big on the river. Keep your overlay of playing good hands and stay away from the fancy play syndrome ie trying to bet players off hands when you have garbage. You can read all of Millers, Doug Hull, Splitsuit. Great stuff but it is difficult to apply in a 1-2 table. Remember players at a 1-2 table aren't real good players otherwise they would be at a higher limit game. Watch them and play off their mistakes. Get some $$ together, watch those videos and keep your overlay and you will be fine. Best of luck.-Jumbo
  • rjevskiyrjevskiy Red Chipper Posts: 102 ✭✭
    This is how I deal with similar situation. Also between jobs and trying to keep my expenses down. However, love to play poker and learning/improving my game to a point when I can make some money to help out during unemployement.
    First and most important, watch video from Doug Hull "Why Shortstack". It is perfect for you and your game right now. I start with minimum allowed stack which is in my case is $60 (maximum allowed is $300). I grind till I reach stack of 100-125 BB. After that I use game plan from "Poker Plays you can use" by Doug Hull. He has exercises at the end of book which have help me change and improve my game. I never limp in any more, if I decide to play I only raise and etc. If I dont feel comfortable with my stack of 100BB+ I just get up and take a break. I come back and start again with $60 and grind again.
    I am not comfortable now with my finances and therefore keep it low and use time to learn. I dont think $2000 is big budget for $1/$2 game as there too many fishes and nits and calling stations. Need to have bigger budget.
    Play shorter sessions, once you start fishing (or playing outside of your plan) get up and come back in 30 min. Need to control your urges. Otherwise you just another fish and might as well play any two cards. Self control and discipline is most important part of your game.
    Play short sessions and start with 30-40 Big Blinds.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 2,555 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You need to focus on your life and relax your mind for a while. You're making it too complicated... 1/2 does not require specialized books or complicated strategies. Learn from the hands you've posted here, participate even while not playing, find a job, set aside some poker money, and play in smaller home games until you have your confidence back.

    "I regret that I should have paid poker coach this money to have 1:1 live coaching session..."
    Losing is like having a coach. Look over your post here in a week or a month, find all the contradictions in it, and you will have learned and reflected on your tough times. Then, when you start over, you will be a much better player and your loss will have meant something valuable to you.

    "Isn't that so boring to think it is the only way to play poker at 1-2 live?"
    If you're trying to gamble, it can be very exciting. If you are trying to win, it can be a grind, to coin a term.

    "How do you guys fold after put decent amount money the pot with good hands..."
    The same way you decided to value bet when you were ahead.

    Good luck.
  • JinplydbstJinplydbst Red Chipper Posts: 53
    Thank you guys for all this great support.
    yeap, I neet to get on with my life. and change my thoughts to this 1-2 games...
    I will probably cheap tournaments which we don't get to bluff due to turbo blinds levels..
    Bluffing going bad is my biggest leak.. so this might help.

    meanwhile i will be studying hands here at forum, staying my pro membership :)

    Thank you and love you all !
  • Doug HullDoug Hull RCP Coach Posts: 1,473 -
    Jinplydbst wrote:
    I just lost my entire poker money bankroll.
    Right now I am between jobs and right after I quit my job, I saved $2k to play live poker
    ...
    Then in about 2-3weeks, I busted all my poker money and last night, I spent my Unemployment benefit to poker, where I busted 6 buy-ins..at 1-2 table.. Now I am so broke
    ...
    But the problem is I am not utilizing things I learned at the table.
    ...
    In the beginning of a session, I play light, I don't know why, but If I get beat with good hand, I get so sticky with it.
    Then, rebuy, rebuy...
    ...
    Now I am so lost, and I need to fix my brain.

    Quit playing until you can afford to lose every chip you put in play, every time you play.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_gambling

    I am serious. Stop playing poker until you get a job and are more stable.
    Founder Red Chip Poker,
    Author Poker Plays You Can Use
    Author Poker Workbook for Math Geeks
  • JinplydbstJinplydbst Red Chipper Posts: 53
    Doug Hull wrote:
    Quit playing until you can afford to lose every chip you put in play, every time you play.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_gambling

    I am serious. Stop playing poker until you get a job and are more stable.

    Doug, that hearts.. Stop playing means that I can no more post my hands,,to forum..
    I will try to hold it up until I find a job... don't think it's going to be easy,
    But can't stop studying and can't stop thinking about poker.

    Thank you for your advise.
  • Doug HullDoug Hull RCP Coach Posts: 1,473 -
    Jinplydbst wrote:
    Doug Hull wrote:
    Quit playing until you can afford to lose every chip you put in play, every time you play.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_gambling

    I am serious. Stop playing poker until you get a job and are more stable.

    Doug, that hearts.. Stop playing means that I can no more post my hands,,to forum..
    I will try to hold it up until I find a job... don't think it's going to be easy,
    But can't stop studying and can't stop thinking about poker.

    Thank you for your advise.

    In computer programming there is something call larval stage. There very well could be a similar "books and videos only" stage for poker players.

    When I first started playing, I spent months reading all the standard books and writing computer simulations of poker. I then played play money poker on-line (almost useless, but got the mechanics down). I then played the tiniest of micro-stakes. Only after months and months of that did I go to a live card room to put my first $100 on tables.

    I believe a first rate education in poker can be had for small money. Many of the classics of the genere are available for cut rate prices used on Amazon. You can cut your teeth on the micro's for hundreds of hours for the cost of a min-buy live. There are tons of videos by SplitSuit here and across the web for free.

    There is no shame in taking a month or two to recenter. After some bad runs plenty of people take a month off to reducate back to their core game. Being out of the game for a few months might be the best thing that ever happened for your game.
    Founder Red Chip Poker,
    Author Poker Plays You Can Use
    Author Poker Workbook for Math Geeks
  • aFishnHisChipsaFishnHisChips Red Chipper Posts: 70
    Hey there,

    There's some great advice above which I can't hope to add to but I would definitely urge you to focus more than anything on Doug's words. Yes, as you say it's tough and hard especially as you clearly love poker and have invested so much into it - financially, emotionally, academically etc...

    But what he says is basically summing up probably one of the crucial pieces of foundational poker wisdom yet one that I think almost all of us forget or choose to ignore at some point or other - bankroll management. It's always the boring chapter that we skim over or the section at the end of the 'top ten things to remember' that we quickly look at and say, 'Oh that doesn't apply to me'. But unfortunately, it applies to every single one of us and BRM is something that we can never lose sight of however good we get.

    And at its heart is the important principle underlined by Doug - don't play with money that you can't afford to lose. This is the rule that applies to everything in fact in life and not just poker. Going out for a drink with your mates every night is fine but not if you're using money that is meant for the rent. Likewise, you don't invest in shares with money that's meant to pay for your food.

    The key is to remember that however difficult things are now, poker isn't going anywhere. The games will always be there waiting for you. So see this as a sabbatical. Take some time to find stability and peace of mind. You can still do all the studying you want and need. You can remain an active part of the forums here where clearly someone with your love and attitude towards the game is extremely welcome. You can go through past situations and hands and really pull them apart and work through them.

    But you need to create a safe and stable foundation to your life before throwing yourself out into the deep. It is without doubt the +EV strategy in the long term. Reach that point again when you're not playing with scared money and you will instantly be playing from a stronger place. And that's always a good thing.

    Anyway, I go on for too long! Your post touched me - as clearly it did others - and I feel for you in your difficult situation. But this will pass - as do all terrible times - so stay strong, patient and determined and you'll be fine.

    And make sure you hang around here. It's a good place to be as you can see from the support above!

    All the best and take care,

    Charlie
  • Doug HullDoug Hull RCP Coach Posts: 1,473 -
    I noticed this from Split by Twitter today:

    How to deal with run bad
    Founder Red Chip Poker,
    Author Poker Plays You Can Use
    Author Poker Workbook for Math Geeks
  • JCWJCW Red Chipper Posts: 93
    If you do go back into the game here is a little test to see if you have a problem. Come into the casino with a little extra money not for poker. Say you have $500 you want to play with, bring $550.

    If you CANNOT leave the casino with that $50 after going broke, then you very well may have gambling problems. I recommend this to all players, of all skill levels and experience who wonder if they have a problem. If you cannot leave with money that you already decided not to put on the table it is a sign of a bigger problem.
  • DrTriciaDrTricia RCP Coach Posts: 186 ✭✭
    JCW wrote:
    If you do go back into the game here is a little test to see if you have a problem. Come into the casino with a little extra money not for poker. Say you have $500 you want to play with, bring $550.

    If you CANNOT leave the casino with that $50 after going broke, then you very well may have gambling problems. I recommend this to all players, of all skill levels and experience who wonder if they have a problem. If you cannot leave with money that you already decided not to put on the table it is a sign of a bigger problem.

    This is excellent advice! Many people don't realize how serious a gambling problem can be until it's too late. Using this quick test can be an alert before you get in too deep!

    Thanks!

    Tricia
  • DrTriciaDrTricia RCP Coach Posts: 186 ✭✭
    Hey there,

    There's some great advice above which I can't hope to add to but I would definitely urge you to focus more than anything on Doug's words. Yes, as you say it's tough and hard especially as you clearly love poker and have invested so much into it - financially, emotionally, academically etc...

    But what he says is basically summing up probably one of the crucial pieces of foundational poker wisdom yet one that I think almost all of us forget or choose to ignore at some point or other - bankroll management. It's always the boring chapter that we skim over or the section at the end of the 'top ten things to remember' that we quickly look at and say, 'Oh that doesn't apply to me'. But unfortunately, it applies to every single one of us and BRM is something that we can never lose sight of however good we get.

    And at its heart is the important principle underlined by Doug - don't play with money that you can't afford to lose. This is the rule that applies to everything in fact in life and not just poker. Going out for a drink with your mates every night is fine but not if you're using money that is meant for the rent. Likewise, you don't invest in shares with money that's meant to pay for your food.

    The key is to remember that however difficult things are now, poker isn't going anywhere. The games will always be there waiting for you. So see this as a sabbatical. Take some time to find stability and peace of mind. You can still do all the studying you want and need. You can remain an active part of the forums here where clearly someone with your love and attitude towards the game is extremely welcome. You can go through past situations and hands and really pull them apart and work through them.

    But you need to create a safe and stable foundation to your life before throwing yourself out into the deep. It is without doubt the +EV strategy in the long term. Reach that point again when you're not playing with scared money and you will instantly be playing from a stronger place. And that's always a good thing.

    Anyway, I go on for too long! Your post touched me - as clearly it did others - and I feel for you in your difficult situation. But this will pass - as do all terrible times - so stay strong, patient and determined and you'll be fine.

    And make sure you hang around here. It's a good place to be as you can see from the support above!

    All the best and take care,

    Charlie

    Well said Charlie! Taking a time out to rebuild one's finances and study is nothing to ashamed of and in fact, is something that most of us should do from time to time!

    Tricia
  • Morgan_BMorgan_B Red Chipper Posts: 262
    Easier said than done, get a job that is. Don't you think he would have a job if he thought he could go get one.

    I keep building my meager bankroll up just to lose half of it or more in one day. It's always when you jump up a level and over-expose your bankroll that the run bad/ play bad begins. Before you know it you've blown everything you earned in the last couple weeks in the span of a few hours. Then you keep playing because you know it will take forever to win it back at the lower stakes. So you go bust and blame it on bad luck right?

    The worst is when you're stuck and you know you should probably fold but you decide to take a chance and call, you're not going to get even by folding right. Or when you know you should probably call but decide not to because it's a decent bet and your bankroll is almost depleted.

    Poker sucks I'm almost busted and there's no way I can find a job. Easy to say wait until you can afford to lose when you actually can afford to lose.
  • ArtArtBobartArtArtBobart Red Chipper Posts: 330 ✭✭
    Morgan_B wrote:
    Easier said than done, get a job that is. Don't you think he would have a job if he thought he could go get one.

    I keep building my meager bankroll up just to lose half of it or more in one day. It's always when you jump up a level and over-expose your bankroll that the run bad/ play bad begins. Before you know it you've blown everything you earned in the last couple weeks in the span of a few hours. Then you keep playing because you know it will take forever to win it back at the lower stakes. So you go bust and blame it on bad luck right?

    The worst is when you're stuck and you know you should probably fold but you decide to take a chance and call, you're not going to get even by folding right. Or when you know you should probably call but decide not to because it's a decent bet and your bankroll is almost depleted.

    Poker sucks I'm almost busted and there's no way I can find a job. Easy to say wait until you can afford to lose when you actually can afford to lose.

    A little tough love here :)

    If you don't have enough bankroll/savings to last a day, you are deluding yourself thinking that you should try to support yourself via poker. Your time will be better spent working on examining why you are unable to find a job. Spending your efforts developing skills that will make you employable over a lifetime are a better investment than time spent at the poker table. For 99.99% of people, poker should be an enjoyable hobby that they can afford to play.
  • Morgan_BMorgan_B Red Chipper Posts: 262
    Am I deluding myself? I really feel like I'm good enough to make a living playing poker online. I can build the bankroll up playing 100NL. I've built it up so many times but there's always that day that I lose more than I should, usually playing 200NL. I feel like my poker skills are strong enough at both levels but I lack the bankroll and bankroll management skills, not to mention the psychological/ emotional skills.

    Anyway I just went bust calling somebody's bluff with Ace high, only problem is they were bluffing with pocket 2's. Sometimes poker feels like a sick joke.

    I appreciate your advice and realize you're trying to help but speaking for myself, I'm going to make poker my job whatever it takes.
  • DrTriciaDrTricia RCP Coach Posts: 186 ✭✭
    Morgan_B wrote:
    Am I deluding myself? I really feel like I'm good enough to make a living playing poker online. I can build the bankroll up playing 100NL. I've built it up so many times but there's always that day that I lose more than I should, usually playing 200NL. I feel like my poker skills are strong enough at both levels but I lack the bankroll and bankroll management skills, not to mention the psychological/ emotional skills.

    Anyway I just went bust calling somebody's bluff with Ace high, only problem is they were bluffing with pocket 2's. Sometimes poker feels like a sick joke.

    I appreciate your advice and realize you're trying to help but speaking for myself, I'm going to make poker my job whatever it takes.

    Morgan,

    I'm glad you are here and are so determined to make poker a career! You'll want to pay close attention to my upcoming December video. It's on goals, but I'm working doing live coaching with a cash player. I think you'll be able to relate to a lot of what we do. He talks a lot about bankroll management, moving down in stakes, making correct plays and more! Let me know what you think once you see it!

    Tricia
  • Morgan_BMorgan_B Red Chipper Posts: 262
    Tricia, I'm very much looking forward to your upcoming videos. I finally sat down last night and watched your videos on ADD and Deliberate Practice, thoroughly enjoyed both of them. For me the problem isn't ADD but rather OCD. I'm beginning to wonder if I should be on meds. Is there a pill that helps you walk away when you're stuck? :)

    Anyway I took notes on the Deliberate Practice video. This isn't going to be easy, time management is going to be crucial for me. I'm going to use Doug's technique for constructing ranges and try to do one hand each day along with reading books and being involved in this forum.

    Thank you for not telling me to get a real job. I realize all the advice about not playing with money you can't afford to lose is the best advice and comes with sincere intentions. Somehow you knew I needed a different medicine, encouragement! I also like how at the end of Deliberate Practice you said to never give up!

    I'll probably be starting a new thread to post my goals, progress, hands of concern etc. in the Online Poker Hands forum. I think more encouragement, support, feedback, and perhaps a sense of accountability on my part would be a great thing.
  • JinplydbstJinplydbst Red Chipper Posts: 53
    Thanks for all the supports and comments here,

    After I read few suggestions here, I took them well and applied to..
    I gave a break of a week or so, and when to play $60 local casino tourney, which was the money I could afford to lose.
    I brought extra $150, to test myself, If I could come home with $150 after busting from tourney.
    Well, luckily, I made to money finishing 7/104. And I didn't go for cash game and came back home straight.

    A week later, I brought that money to play tourney and cash, I busted tourney and played cash for $150 and luckily, made more than double.

    Last night, I went to casino with $450, played $250 and lost $250 and came straight home with $200.
    It was tough to quit after losing them, and just leaving with $200. man, this was not easy and was so tempted to buy in more..but didn't. (I buy-in for $150 and add on $100 when it goes below $80 or so.)

    Obviously, I couldn't quit playing, but trying to manage to spend what I can afford for right now...
    I don't have a lot of money now but trying to build it up little by little...

    For the job, I am still trying to find a job, and hopefully, I can get one soon.
    Besides, actually I am having a baby in two weeks :0, which means, I really need to get a job and make extra money playing poker!

    Thank you all and happy thanks giving!
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 2,555 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Happy thanksgiving, I'm glad you held on to your money. Here's a reiteration of some very wise advice: do not play poker until you get that job. Make a pledge in this thread and stick to it. If you can't do that, you do not presently have the discipline to be a winning player. Here's your chance to make that big fold you know you need to make; action on you.
  • Doug HullDoug Hull RCP Coach Posts: 1,473 -
    persuadeo wrote:
    Happy thanksgiving, I'm glad you held on to your money. Here's a reiteration of some very wise advice: do not play poker until you get that job. Make a pledge in this thread and stick to it. If you can't do that, you do not presently have the discipline to be a winning player. Here's your chance to make that big fold you know you need to make; action on you.

    This
    Founder Red Chip Poker,
    Author Poker Plays You Can Use
    Author Poker Workbook for Math Geeks
  • JinplydbstJinplydbst Red Chipper Posts: 53
    Doug Hull wrote:
    persuadeo wrote:
    Happy thanksgiving, I'm glad you held on to your money. Here's a reiteration of some very wise advice: do not play poker until you get that job. Make a pledge in this thread and stick to it. If you can't do that, you do not presently have the discipline to be a winning player. Here's your chance to make that big fold you know you need to make; action on you.

    This

    I respect your continuous suggestion, job first!. and don't play..

    Thank you Doug, and Persuadeo,, I get it... dang..
    Alright, I will try again. But I won't lie here, If I play I will say that I played and have questions.
    BUT, If I don't play I will say I didn't play and still posting some general poker questions.

    Maybe, like Doug said, I will see If I can play 2NL @BOL... only site works from where I live..

    I will post back here after few weeks :) ,

    I will find a decent job, so you guys can't no more saying stop playing poker,, lol :)

    Thank you again for supports!
  • Morgan_BMorgan_B Red Chipper Posts: 262
    Jinplydbst, congratulations on your expecting baby! Good luck finding a job. If you end up back at the casino I wish you the best, sounds like you've done pretty well at your local game. Just make sure you're in the right frame of mind and try not to let the stress of your situation affect your game. If you're thinking more about the money than the poker it's probably not a good idea to play. If you think you can find a job that's definitely the best bet.
  • MattPMattP Red Chipper Posts: 67 ✭✭
    A lot of good advice here, but I'll add a few thoughts as well...

    — If you're not able to play poker with money you can afford to lose, you aren't likely to make good decisions (or play good poker). Yes, it sucks, but if you're playing with scared money, you're playing poker at a disadvantage.

    — When my kids were really little and my wife wasn't working at all, money was very tight and I had to use my hard-earned poker bankroll to help handle our real life expenses. As a result, I had to give up poker for a year or two: even though I consistently won playing poker, I still couldn't justify gambling with money we needed to pay rent or utilities. And trust me, I know how frustrating it can be when you love poker and can't play. But sometimes, life is bigger than the game and the game has to wait.

    — When you're not bankrolled enough to play real-money poker, there are still ways to keep learning. Pub Poker is goofy, but it can still be challenging. You can still play poker on PokerStars, etc for free, and yes, the competition is silly, but it's still poker, and you can still apply some of what you learn here. Just think of your opponents as drunk lagtards and challenge yourself to beat them consistently. Finally, there are some good poker simulators out there that can be challenging as a training tool. On the Mac, I use PokerGenius. On Windows, there's Poker Academy. Are all these options less satisfying than live, real-money poker? For sure. But with all of them, you still can practice hand-reading, strategy, and thoughtful decision-making.


    Best of luck and keep your head up...