KK flatting 3 bet pre line

AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
$100 NL zone poker
UTG hero raise $3.50
folds to BB
BB raises to $10
Hero calls $6.50

*Vs my UTG raising range I figured he had a strong 3 betting hand of JJ+ AK+. I think most players on here will fold vs 4 bet 100bb deep with out KK or AA given its UTG vs BB range.

Flop ($20.50) 3s 2s 5h
BB bets $14
Hero raise to $34
BB all in like $56 more
Hero calls

I think this is a pretty good line being in position and having a decent fill for his overall range.

I did not have Ks in my hands, so figured im flipping vs Asks and crushing JJ and QQ. If he has KK were chopping and if he has AA so be it. Would of been all in pre anyways.

Comments

  • tagliustaglius Red Chipper Posts: 290 ✭✭
    looks good to me. We're behind 6 combos of AA, ahead of 12 JJ/QQ, and flipping w AsKs.
  • nominaliznominaliz Red Chipper Posts: 16 ✭✭
    Assuming that the range you are putting him on they can have 6 combos of AA/JJ/QQ, 1 combo of KK and 8 combos of AK. If you think that he is folding JJ/QQ/AK then I think your line is the best but if he is going to 5bet shove those hands I think you should 4bet because you are going to lose AK on a board like that, and you may not be able to get 3 streets of value from QQ and JJ.

    So the most important thing is your read that
    Austin wrote: »
    I think most players on here will fold vs 4 bet 100bb deep with out KK or AA given its UTG vs BB range.

    And I don´t know if that is correct, many players may get sticky with those hands, not sure though...
  • JoeOffsuitJoeOffsuit Red Chipper Posts: 512 ✭✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    I think most players on here will fold vs 4 bet 100bb deep with out KK or AA given its UTG vs BB range.
    Austin wrote: »
    If he has KK were chopping and if he has AA so be it. Would of been all in pre anyways.

    Haven't played zone, but I really like 4-betting with KK. Yes, we lose a lot KK vs AA (at least I know I have), but I just can't stand the thought of giving Ax a free chance to flop an A, or any hand we are beating a free flop. By calling the 3-bet, we still have SPR=4. Is the plan to fold if an Ace flops and he bets out?
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    JoeOffsuit wrote: »
    Austin wrote: »
    I think most players on here will fold vs 4 bet 100bb deep with out KK or AA given its UTG vs BB range.
    Austin wrote: »
    If he has KK were chopping and if he has AA so be it. Would of been all in pre anyways.

    Haven't played zone, but I really like 4-betting with KK. Yes, we lose a lot KK vs AA (at least I know I have), but I just can't stand the thought of giving Ax a free chance to flop an A, or any hand we are beating a free flop. By calling the 3-bet, we still have SPR=4. Is the plan to fold if an Ace flops and he bets out?

    If he bets ace flop i will call once. If he smashes pot when ace hits ill probably just fold. I've seen so many players just be afraid of ace flop when opponent leads into them. I need to rewatch andrew brokos video on barreling ranges but calling at least once is optimal in this situation or if we fold every time ace hits we are being bluffed too frequently and and exploited.
  • MonadMonad Red Chipper Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2016
    Just shove over their bet post flop.
  • JoeOffsuitJoeOffsuit Red Chipper Posts: 512 ✭✭✭
    Yeah, its a tough spot calling a 3-bet with KK, and then an Ace flops with SPR=4 against a 3-bet range, but it sounds like at least you have a plan.

    But suppose you 4-bet pre-flop a little over pot, so SPR<1 on the flop (pot committing both of you if he calls.) You are already prepared to get stacked if he has AA. You really don't think any 3-bet hands weaker than AA call the 4-bet? And you are also OK giving weaker 3-bet hands (probably heavy in single aces) a free flop?
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Monad wrote: »
    Just shove over their bet post flop.

    I like it if he has JJ or QQ. What about when he had AK? Less likely to call a shove but peel one. AK does have small equity against my hand Espcially if he has one spade. I think a shove takes down the pot more and lower variance but also decreases value for the times he spazzes
  • MonadMonad Red Chipper Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭✭
    Yeah small raise size works fine, especially if your read is theyre LAG, but there could be some weird turn cards that occasionally kill your action even for less than a psb behind IMO, and id wager AK is coming along for the ride regardless.

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