Who are these guys? A Little Respect for "the Fish"

ImperatorImperator Red Chipper Posts: 879 ✭✭✭
edited January 25 in General Concepts
I had a good weekend at the Sands but it could have been a lot better.... but I will save that for the "Leaks Challenge" thread.

The Limping Strategy $1-$2 Blinds.
So I ran into some very weird bad but "winning" poker players at the tables I played at this weekend. I will only talk about 2 of them because they had similar strategies.

I had four 4 hour sessions in two days. There were big breaks between each session. I ran into both of these players on the first day in two different sessions.

This was their strategy.: One #1 would limp in with every hand; the #2 would limp in with about 85% of his hands. If somebody raised in front of them they would call or fold some percentage of the time that I couldn't keep track of.... but they would call a high percentage of the time. They would never raise to enter the pot. It didn't matter if they had AA, QQ, AK, T9s or 72 off; they just didn't raise when they entered the pot. There seemed to be some idea of trapping people in this strategy.

In fact at one of my tables one of these guys, was talking to his seat neighbor, about how "bad" of a hand AK was and that sometimes he would fold it to a big raise preflop. They both agreed that they would rather have 54 suited than AK. I mean there were real fish at my table and I should have done a lot better than I did. I'm not complaining because I did well. But I seemed to call down these guys at the wrong times, sometimes. For instance, when I was new at the table and LImper#1 limped in with QQ from UTG I was in the big blind with a pair of 22s. Of course the flop comes with both a Queen and a Two and it runs out with various Broadway cards and bricks but nothing frightening. So I bet my sets and he calls and calls and calls. I'm thinking he has maybe top pair or perhaps Q9 off which would have made 2 pair. But he shows up with a set of Queens. I laughed. He limped in with a pair of Queens. I said "Man that was a good hand for you. You trapped me on that one." What can you do but laugh?

All in and all both of these players ended up better than break-even at the end of the night. They never stacked off as far as I could tell and I was watching them at their various tables on the second day. But I did call one down with a pair of Aces when he first limped, and then called my raise with a pair of KKs. I got most of his stack that time. But if a King had hit the board what would I have done?

I was the only one to regularly call them down and sometimes I lost and sometimes I won, but I never won as much as I thought I should. But after 7 or 8 hands with each of them like this they were also smart enough just to stay out of my way. I got into the habit of entering big when I entered the pot with my range... 6x-8x.

What made me smile to myself is that both these guys came up with a real strategy -- no matter how fishy -- and developed it themselves.

So this is their strategy in a nutshell as far as I could figure it out:
  • limp in 100% of the time;
  • bet as much as you can on the river, especially if they are checked into;
  • sometimes check raise on the turn;
  • fold on the river if it looks really bad;
  • stay out of the way of people who notice you have this strategy;
  • attack all the people who have just taken a seat at the table;
  • always attack the regs until they figure out your strategy;
  • move to a new table when most people at the table have figured out your strategy (at a certain point always when they were up, they would ask for a table change or just wonder off to a new table);
  • my guess is that they have also figured out to move to another table when they are at a table where there is very little limping.

After being with one or the other of these players, at a table for a session a piece, I would go over and say hello to them at other tables and watch the table for a bit. (Especially during my second session during my 2nd day at the Sands, because I was taking breaks, every hour.) Their strategy never varied and when I saw them they were usually doing quite well.

What was also interesting is that these guys always remained sober. They would drink water or coffee, even at tables where every one was drinking something with alcohol. I mention this because there seemed to be something serious and worked out with their strategy. I thought to myself, "If these guys could unlearn their bad habits and take the game as something to study they would become decent players." Sometimes you have to respect "the fish".

I know you Red Chippers must think I'm crazy to follow these two guys around the poker room, observing their games, and putting some thought into what their strategy must be. But I think that they were both "original." They didn't get this strategy out of a book. It is not a brilliant strategy, but they developed it themselves and with a purpose. And I think they are doing well with it, because they play in games where a lot of people treat the big blind like an ante to see the flop, and they noticed that a lot of people just give up on the river.

And also they had a strategy. Most of the half-decent regs I see at the table are fit-or-fold with a few other tricks. That's the whole of their strategy. Play tight, get a hand, bet well. That's all of it. That's hardly a strategy at all. But these two guys have worked out something to exploit guys like that and they did it on their own. Respect.

Both of these guys were from the Balkans; one was from Croatia, the other was from Albania; one was Catholic; the other was probably Muslim. Both of them had good working class jobs; one was a manager/janitor at a number of buildings in Manhattan; and the other was a line worker for Verizon (recently on strike.) I mention this background because both of them seemed to have New York immigrant street smarts. They didn't seem to do much calculating, or care about pot-odds, or anything else, but they seemed to have a good read for people who would fold to them.

By the way, I'm pretty sure these guys didn't know each other. They came to and left the casino at different times and I never saw them together.
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Comments

  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 2,601 ✭✭✭✭
    I highly doubt they are winning players who play 85-100% of their hands and only limp in. Maybe they are good at bluffing when its checked to them, but they will run into some pretty value heavy ranges and just get crushed. There are going to be way too many tough spots for them post flop with their wide ranges.

    If I was online and seen a guy playing 85\0\0 i would never leave that game until he busted.

    Maybe they were running hot and got some big stacks for those 2 days but guarenteed what your describing will not work long run.
  • ImperatorImperator Red Chipper Posts: 879 ✭✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    I highly doubt they are winning players who play 85-100% of their hands and only limp in.

    I think you are wrong. Most people at the tables I saw them at didn't even notice that they these guys limped in all the time. They didn't even see. And they seemed very good at picking their tables. And the point is that they have a strategy. You don't realize how bad the regs are in some of my games. I win practically all the time and I'm not a good player.

    I'm sure I was the only one at my table keeping track of limping rates.

    Further, I was at tables where everybody but me limped. Probably about 50% of hands they limped-in or open raised. The best would open raise about 15% of their hands and another 35% they would limp. Father's Day weekend seemed to bring out all the limping fathers. The that that these guys limped all of there hands, with monster hands and bad hands, when 4 or 5 people limp in front of them made it easier for them to hide.

    The difference is that I have a memory-method for counting limps without writing them down so I know the limp and call and open raise rate of everybody at my tables. When one of the guys left the table and I pointed out to my neighbor that one guy limped in 80% of the time and never open raised he was shocked. And I would bet everyone at the table would have been equally shocked.

    And part of my point is that a bad strategy is usually better than "fit-or-fold."

    You may be right about their long-run winnings but in those two days they were both up a lot as far as I can tell.

    These guys would never play on-line though. Part of their strategy is to get at a table where people can't figure them out and they can figure other people out and then to move on when the table changes. I saw one of them change tables three times in an hour until they settled in.

    In the future I want these guys in my game because I can get at them eventually. But they both stopped playing with me in the hand pretty quickly. Also I heard one of them talk about all the different casinos in the area and my guess is that he just takes trips to a different casino 3 weekends a month. From what I gather these trips are to get away from his wife for reasons that can be easily guessed at, and poker is just the bonus.

    But I have to add one more thing. The guy who limped in 80% of his hands, when I talked to him in the food court afterward he said to me: "The whole time you were only in 16 hands." He had it exactly right. And my bet is he had good observations of everybody at the table.

    So this is the other guy who kept track of things. The guy you would probably categorize as the worse player at the table.
  • FilthyCasualFilthyCasual Red Chipper Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    Seems more like both took similar home game strategies to the casino. Hopefully, you really opened up your range from late position against players limping this much
  • ImperatorImperator Red Chipper Posts: 879 ✭✭✭
    Seems more like both took similar home game strategies to the casino. Hopefully, you really opened up your range from late position against players limping this much

    Yes, I did and that is why I played well and even better once #2 the 80% guy just stayed out of my way most of the time. Because in truth he scared me a little.

    It was hard to find the pain threshold at some of the tables. Raise 12x with 4 limpers in front and if the first guy calls everybody calls. It was fun though even if I had a bit of variance. I just had to keep on fighting back. The thing is I think playing better I would have would have been 7 or 8 max buy-ins up instead of a little less than 2-buy-ins up.

    By the way I think Mr. 80% was a much better player than #1.

    Think about it, he would fold out AK and play 75s. He would often play 75s the way he played AA. I saw him do this at another table announcing his bets out-loud in the exact same loud voice all the time. This means that he stumbled on a highly polarized range. He plays his big hands like his weak hands, often, and taking into account his opponent.

    The guy would have no idea what a polarized range is, but the reason I feared him a little is that I never knew what he had. I have KK and I raise behind 5 limpers and everybody drops out of the pot except Mr. %80. Does he have AA or 75s. Either one. And the board falls 86J two toned. Not a bad texture for KK when coming into the pot with 12x.

    So you bet. And he announces call in that same confident voice. What range do you put him on? He usually has more bluffs than value hands or even draws. But does he against me? He has been avoiding me of late? And I need to bet on the river against this guy or else he will bet high some portion of the time either as value or bluff. I have to be call him down if I think I have a decent hand. Take the risk. But have not doubt this guy has a good read on the players around him and I've seen him fold on the river and reraise on the river but never just call with either value hands or bluffs.

    I saw a hand of his hand go down exactly like this against another reg at another table.

    And Mr. 80% is not embarrassed. I've seen him show his bluffs when people fold on the river to him. I think he shows his bluffs and hides his value hands, which is strange. Yet, I think there is a method to his madness.

    I respect this guy. And I think I have a little to learn from him.

    Even if he only won that weekend playing 80% of his hands I still have something to learn from him. And that's why I'm writing about him and following him around the casino.
  • ImperatorImperator Red Chipper Posts: 879 ✭✭✭
    edited June 2016
    P.S. I stole a lot of limps from late position and the blinds, with my "just okay"hands. That is why I entered the pot so many times. And again, I think it was only Mr. 80% who noticed I was doing this. But as I said there were times I would do this and I would do this raise 12x and wind up with 5 others in the pot with me. So it goes. A huge multi-way pot and then you have gamble a little.
  • Ruxton_AtheistRuxton_Atheist Red Chipper Posts: 131 ✭✭✭
    edited June 2016
    16 hands played over 4 hours live full ring @ ~1.5 orbits/down = ~30 hands/hour x 4 = 16/120 (!) = 13%. You are leaving money on the table. For everything these "fish" are doing incorrectly, they are correct about one of the universal truths of live low stakes NLH. In order to leverage your skill edge, you need to see flops, turns and rivers. As many as possible. The postflop skill gap between you and your opponents is proportional to the amount of equity you can afford to give up pre.
  • Skors3Skors3 Red Chipper Posts: 640 ✭✭✭
    persuadeo wrote: »
    After all, why would you bloat the pot when you don't know what's coming?

    HA!
  • ImperatorImperator Red Chipper Posts: 879 ✭✭✭
    edited June 2016
    1. I didn't play with him the full 4 hours. He moved to another table. And when the other stacks at my table got low I found the deepest stacked table and moved there.
    2. I was drawing card dead for about an hour. A lot of 53s 74s. I widened my range to my 32 percent range and still drew dead.
    3. The stacks at my table were quite low which limited maneuverability.
  • ImperatorImperator Red Chipper Posts: 879 ✭✭✭
    But I did follow this guy around the casino for two days. I wonder if anyone here can understand my fascination with Mr. 80% and with what he was doing to all these $1-$2 players.

    His method seemed to be to search for tables with short stacks and to request changes to those tables. Just the opposite of what I do. Even here I think this guy has "a theory" all his own.

    By the way I've been writing all day on my not-so-smart cell phone. So forgive all the typos.
  • JesseJesse Red Chipper Posts: 133
    Well, this is what I see happening:

    The 80% guy gets to see a ton of flops with players that may be worse at maneuvering postflop. His hand can occasionally be very disguised because he has big pairs and big broadways in his range - hands his opponents tend to raise with.

    In a game with very little preflop raising (i.e. people only raise with something like TT+/AQ+) he doesn't get preflop punished for playing a lot of the weaker hands. If people at the table are raising <30% of pots, this is likely true. Therefore, the raiser's range becomes very narrow and relatively easy to read.

    It's likely difficult to show consistent results playing this way - you'll end up in a lot of multiway pots and some very strange situations. It's possible to have big wins if the opposition is very predictable postflop.

    I'd say this could be a profitable strategy if many opponents are too loose in unraised pots and poor at evaluating relative hand strengths postflop. However, at a tighter-aggro table, I'd expect that he'll just get iso-raised constantly and be forced to either play out of position w/ a weaker hand range or give up on all the excessive preflop limps.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 2,601 ✭✭✭✭
    Ok so he is limping AA and 75s. Maybe he's ok post flop. If its $1\$2 he is paying $60\hr playing every hand assuming its not being raised. Its very hard to make up that kind of money without running really well.

    I've seen videos on CR where the instructor said you can play just about every hand. Its just very hard to limp your premiums and go multiway and show a profit. What your describing is basically fish out playing regs.

    At a tight passive table this would be idea because pots are only 2 or 3 people and you can take stabs at pots and take it down. But at a loose passive table you are forced to make hands going 6 or 7 ways each time in a limped pot.
  • ChipXtractorChipXtractor Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭
    It is a very viable strategy to limp in PF. I know that most of us have been taught this is a sign of a poor player and it might be true the vast majority of the time. However, Soto proved on many occasions this past week playing with him that a limping strategy can be played profitably.

    The big thing is that you need to really understand the why you are doing it and the what you are trying to accomplish by doing so. Most do not.

    cXt
    Twitter = @ChipXtractor
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 2,601 ✭✭✭✭
    It is a very viable strategy to limp in PF. I know that most of us have been taught this is a sign of a poor player and it might be true the vast majority of the time. However, Soto proved on many occasions this past week playing with him that a limping strategy can be played profitably.

    The big thing is that you need to really understand the why you are doing it and the what you are trying to accomplish by doing so. Most do not.

    cXt

    Anything over like 40% i think is a little crazy. You have to have good table dynamics to pull this off. As games become more aggressive its a strategy thats hard to apply or use while moving up.

    I know one guy who plays 30-50% of his hands even calling raises some times with 74s. Couple key elements.

    Undertands the players range well
    Has position
    Great at using pyschology and table talk to manipulate his opponents.
    Not afraid to pull the trigger.

    Its a high variance strategy that is difficult to apply correctly. Also have to constantly be on your A game.

    If limit games like 3\6 or 6\12 are beatable and constantly multiway pots I guess you can win with this strategy. Most good limit players have a tight strategy though.
  • Tim WilliamsTim Williams Red Chipper Posts: 23
    I play a lot like this at the lowest stakes against regs when I'm just doing it for fun. People don't know how to adjust and sometimes just assume 'he's a donk' (like I've done), and instead of trying to figure you and your strategy (as you have done, props to you) they just wait to get their pay check. I don't know about these guys; they've probably overcompensated and tried to look for explotation opportunities that weigh outside of proper player, however for me I can get action on people who adjust incorrect and don't realise I can still do ok ranging and can get off a hand. Prob also worth mentioning that if you're seeing every single flop you're probably flopping more two pairs and shit than the average guy, and would have nailed them in spots they'd have no hope of recognising because essentially ranging your 'value hands' is impossible
  • MonadMonad Red Chipper Posts: 994 ✭✭✭
    This thread is bizarre. I will not respect these fish.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 2,601 ✭✭✭✭
    Monad wrote: »
    This thread is bizarre. I will not respect these fish.

    I some what agree, but as stated trying to keep an open mind. I would still be hand selective about 30% . i don't ever see myself playing higher than that unless its short handed.
  • ImperatorImperator Red Chipper Posts: 879 ✭✭✭
    edited June 2016
    One thing I need to say is that Mr. 80% was always the most aggressive guy at the table. I think ChipX can testify to the fact that I can be a bit Spewey but I'm not a passive player and Mr. 80% is much more aggressive than I am. For all of his limping when he came to a game the table dynamics changed. (I could call him a wolf in fish clothing, but I'm not sure Mr. 80% had much pretense in him. He is who he is... a kind of natural.)

    Of course I only observed him for a few hours over the course of two days. You also have to understand that from what I could gather from his conversation this guy goes and plays at a casino somewhere in the North East every weekend. And he is not afraid to travel because he traveled up to Syracuse on a three day weekend and he went to place called Mount Airy.

    I call this guy Mr. 80% because that was the amount of hands I saw him in. But my guess is that he is in closer to 70% of his pots. I plotted his range on Flopzilla. In the first place from table talk I learned that he loves suited cards. He also likes connected cards and pairs. He will play all of those. I think he will limp in with any hand with a Face Card in it. Just by watching him he seems to make some distinction between face cards and Tens. So my guess is that he will open with J6 off but not T6 off.

    Here is my estimate of Mr. 80% ridiculous limping range.

    i319oqjvhq0b.png


    My deal on Saturday and Sunday was to get a 4 hour session in the afternoon and a 4 hour session in the evening. If stacks were very short at my table I would look around for the deepest stack table and request a table change to that table. I would take breaks every two hours in the first session and every hour in the evening session.

    Father's Day Weekend: Saturday was very crowded. There were a lot Father-Son "teams" playing and there was a big tournament going on. Practically every table was occupied by noon. I ran into Mr. 80% at my first table about an hour into my first session. The table was already short stacked so I was looking for the deepest stacked table on my break. My guess is that he saw that everyone was short stacked at my table, except for me, and requested a table change. He came in with $75.

    What grabbed my attention about him was how damn confident this guy was about everything. The second thing that grabbed my attention is that he doubled his stack on me.

    In this limp fest. He was UTG and I was in the BB. The whole table minus one limped to me. I had 2 2 so I checked my option. The flop comes A 2 9. I bet $20 and he goes all in to ~$80 which is more than half his stack. Everyone folds to me. I call with my Twos. He calls and flips over his AA. I laugh and he twinkles and shrugs his shoulders. I say to the dealer "Should I just pay him now or are you going to give me another duck?"

    So he limped in with AA. It happens. What was I to do? I think I made the correct call. He trapped me by limping with AA. Later I saw that he limped in always. I also saw that when he grabbed a pot he would show his bluffs but he only showed his value hands at showdown. He would show his value hands and bluff catchers, win or lose at showdown.

    I also saw that this guy had a strategy of some kind. He was not doing this out of thin air. And at all the tables he was at he was eventually dominating the table. I think one of the thing that motivated his table changes is that he would only stay at a table if he could dominate it. I followed this guy around on all of my breaks for two days.

    I was hooked.

    So I eventually moved to my deep stacked table and he moved to some other shorter stacked table.

    I would take two hours in between my 11 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. sessions. I would rest and watch other games. Usually I wander over to $5-$10 table and take hand histories. But this past weekend I followed Mr. 80% around from table to table. He knew I was watching him and he liked it. A note to his character: I'm pretty sure he put on a little performance for me.

    Yes he would lose a lot of money per hour with his limps because he would often fold on the flop. But when your in a limp fest the limp is more like an ante.

    I noticed that when he got below $75 he would always chip-up to $100 again. And when he was in a hand he was not ashamed to stack off. He did it with $100 and doubled. And the very next hand he went all in with $175 dollars behind on the turn and when the guy folded Mr. 80% showed his K5 suited bluff on a A469 board. After Mr. 80% showed his bluff, the other guy angrily flipped over TT. My gauge of Mr 80% personality is that he didn't tilt much but he often tilted the people who played against him.

    Mr. 80% was by far the most aggressive player at his table. And he had a lot of ups and downs as far as I could see but he was often up and when he played for stacks he seemed to win.

    That's all I can say for now. But I will watch out for this guy. He was fun to watch.
  • ImperatorImperator Red Chipper Posts: 879 ✭✭✭
    P.S. If you all will noticed I revised his limping range down from a top 85% to about 70%. The reason I did so is that I went over my notes more thoroughly and translated them into my journal. He limped more at my table while I was there but when he was at other tables I think he limped a bit less. Still, I put him at 70% overall from what I could see.
  • ImperatorImperator Red Chipper Posts: 879 ✭✭✭
    edited June 2016
    Also going over my notes I saw that I got one of the hands wrong and revised it in my last big post here. I was at first writing from memory on my phone. This morning I was writing from from my girlfriend's place on my computer and from my notes. Forgive the slight revisions.

    I don't think it changes my point that Mr. 80% was worth watching. Someday, if I ever move up to $5-$10, I will take a vacation at $1-$2 and experiment with something of his strategy. Maybe I'll tweek it a bit.

    By the way, when playing at casino live games where there are a lot of tables, if you ever take a long break, try to go find an interesting table or an interesting player and just stand there and watch. Take notes if you don't feel embarrassed. Make friends with the floor walkers and the dealers so that they smile at you when you are doing this. You can always learn something from watching others play, even if it is just about watching others play.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 2,601 ✭✭✭✭
    Seems like i ran into your mr 80 and mr 100 this morning. Female and male came to the table and they are just awful!!!! They are betting empty side pots in 3 way all in situations with T high!!!

    Although they 100% limp all their hands and call 20x raises lol they both managed to get 300bb deep from other players and im quickly up 3 buyins in about an hour.

    I am playing 30-40% of my hands trying to get more involved into pots with them. They are 100% passive preflop and the female always bets $20-$30 every street.

    One hand i had KT on T64.
    I bet flop she called $30 into $35.
    Turn ($95) 2
    I bet $50
    She check raised to 100
    I called
    River J
    Check check
    She shows 73o.

    Its not your mr 80, but this is what happens eventually to players playing every hand. They may get lucky for a little while than regs or decent players like yourself mop them up. Maybe better regs than myself can play every hand vs them and show a lot more profit. I dont want to venture too far over that 40% mark mostly because it would be playing oop and idk if someone is going to raise behind.
  • ImperatorImperator Red Chipper Posts: 879 ✭✭✭
    Jesse wrote: »
    Well, this is what I see happening:
    ****
    It's likely difficult to show consistent results playing this way - you'll end up in a lot of multiway pots and some very strange situations. It's possible to have big wins if the opposition is very predictable postflop.

    I'd say this could be a profitable strategy if many opponents are too loose in unraised pots and poor at evaluating relative hand strengths postflop. However, at a tighter-aggro table, I'd expect that he'll just get iso-raised constantly and be forced to either play out of position w/ a weaker hand range or give up on all the excessive preflop limps.

    I agree somewhat. I think part of Mr. 80%'s strategy is finding the right opponents

    But who knows if he gets ambitious and decides to stick things out with Regular LAGs, somewhere along the line, he might adjust in some other way.

    The people who said that he developed this strategy from playing in home games are probably right.

  • ImperatorImperator Red Chipper Posts: 879 ✭✭✭
    edited June 2016
    Austin wrote: »
    Its not your mr 80, but this is what happens eventually to players playing every hand. They may get lucky for a little while than regs or decent players like yourself mop them up. Maybe better regs than myself can play every hand vs them and show a lot more profit. I dont want to venture too far over that 40% mark mostly because it would be playing oop and idk if someone is going to raise behind.

    Again I agree somewhat. But what I noticed about him is that he folded about 30% of the time to a preflop raise if it was a big enough raise. He wouldn't ever fold to a 3x raise in a multiplayer pot, so he was obviously making decisions depending on the size of the pot.

    Also if checked to on late streets he would sometimes make an overbet or a pot size bet or a half-pot bet. Too many people folded to him for me to get any kind of read on his bet-sizing. But it was not passive.

    Post-flop at least, Mr. 80% found the pain thresholds at his tables much easier than I found them at mine.

    Think about it though. He would limp into every hand with ~900 combos and he would stay in against a significant preflop raise, depending on position I would guess, with ~630 combos. Post-flop, from what I could tell he would bet and raise his "value hands" and his bluffs about equally. But I've seen him fold on later streets quite passively and call down with 99 on a Jack high board (he won the pot) and call down with JJ on a King high board (he lost the pot).

    But this is interestesting, I saw him overbet the river with ~$175 in the pot when the 3rd Club came. Two players folded to him and he collected the pot. He showed his bluff. Both of those players groaned. Both of them had him beat. And I would bet that both of them were on tilt.

    What was his bluff?

    :Ac :5h

    The board was this
    :5c :diamond :club :6h :club

    What was interesting about this hand is that he bluffed with the

    :Ac

    in his hand. He turned his low pair into a bluff.

    In other words he had the nut-Flush blocker. I don't think this was an accident. I think that this guy knew what he was doing. He never read a poker book in his life, at least not in English. And I don't think he is the kind of guy to watch poker videos.

    Another funny thing is that he slow-rolled showing this bluff. He showed the

    :Ac

    first and then slammed the

    :5h on to the table about 3 seconds later and smiled. Just beautiful.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This guy is a boss. Only nerds watch poker videos, obvs.
  • ImperatorImperator Red Chipper Posts: 879 ✭✭✭
    persuadeo wrote: »
    This guy is a boss. Only nerds watch poker videos, obvs.

    I'm such a nerd. I'm watching Janda's poker videos; doing SplitSuit's workbook; and reading a book on how algorithms can change my life.

    Spewey nerd! That's me!

    @persuadeo, if you play at the Sands again will you let me follow you around and take hand histories on you? Will you let me annoy you a bit?
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 2,601 ✭✭✭✭
    Ms.100% stacked me in 800bb pot. Took all the profit i made off her bf back.
    99 vs kk on k92.

    She goes crazy with any 2nd pair hand or gutters. Perfect setup for her.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    Ms.100% stacked me in 800bb pot. Took all the profit i made off her bf back.
    99 vs kk on k92.

    She goes crazy with any 2nd pair hand or gutters. Perfect setup for her.

    yikes
    Imperator wrote: »
    persuadeo wrote: »
    This guy is a boss. Only nerds watch poker videos, obvs.

    @persuadeo, if you play at the Sands again will you let me follow you around and take hand histories on you? Will you let me annoy you a bit?

    Sure.



  • kageykagey Red Chipper, KINGOFTAGS Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭✭
    at passive, fit or fold tables - limping in position can be very profitable.
    I like their concept of limping with monster hands to "protect" their weak range.
    a lot of novice players do this - not understanding that your weak limping range is actually a leak. so it should be removed not protected.

    interesting how they make big bets or overbets when they deduce that players in the hand don't have the nuts (flush or str8). sounds like they're above average at hand reading. These guys remind me of some of the regs at Live at the Bike. Guys like Harry and Eldar (Bear Jew) seem to play like idiots - but the truth is there's a method to their madness. They're not necessarily in the card-catching business, but more in the applying pressure biz. Very interesting to watch.

    BTW, I saw a limit player do this the other morning calling from any position, never folding once he hit a pair, and always raising when he's 2-pair+. the only time he didn't limp was JJ-KK. And with AA, he's all in pre no matter what the action is in front of him (because he don't want it cracked!). Once you figured this out - you could crush him.

    I agree - we should respect these guys. They're not great players who are going to be playing at the final table of the Main Event - but they've found a strategy that makes them money in their games. The better we understand how they think - the more money we can extract from them with the nuts.

    nice post, Jerry.
  • kageykagey Red Chipper, KINGOFTAGS Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    Ms.100% stacked me in 800bb pot. Took all the profit i made off her bf back.
    99 vs kk on k92.

    BWHAHAHAHAHA!
    800 BBs!
    Small ball poker at its finest!







    Sorry @SplitSuit, @Doug Hull and @Ed Miller.... I tried.
    I did.
    I really tried.
    But I couldn't resist.
    ... you may chastise me now...
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