A9o on the BTN

DavidLDavidL Red Chipper Posts: 16
edited December 2014 in Live Poker Hands
$1/2 Live Ohio, casino packed with people for thanks giving.

Hero($235): :Ah :9s Playing Aggressive, especially after flop.
SB($350): Calling Station grandpa, calling river bet with 2nd pair twice
MP($400): Play passive, OK player, compare to overall field.
CO($200): Playing tight, early 20

Preflop
MP limps, CO limps, Hero Limps from BTN, (I usually raise at this spot, if I would play A9s but decide to limp here, planning to play aggressive after flop, as I have been playing for the night)
SB Limps, BB check his option.

Pot $10.
[F] :6c :As :Qs
SB bets $15, BB folds, MP Calls, CO calls, Hero raise to $60.
SB calls, MP calls, CO folds.
--> I was trying to wrap it up there with top pair, and if BB calls, he will have 2nd pair most of time, if MP calls most likely flush draw.

Pot $200
[T] :Kc
SB checks, MP checks, Hero bets $55.
SB calls, MP calls.
--> I was thinking if SB had two pair here, he would have bet the turn or RR after my bet.
I was thinking between shove and 1/3 bet, but had to leave $100+ to play the river. I couldn't check here after check raising the flop. by betting $55, I wanted SB to continue with 2nd pair, straight and flush draw. and MP comes with weak flush draw or top pair at best with 10 kicker, so if I have $100+ on the river, I can make him fold his A with better kicker, AT and AJ.

Pot $365
[R] :6h
SB Checks, MP checks, Hero shove. $120
SB calls, MP calls.
--> Flush didn't get there, K two pair no more good, worst I could chop with MP.
I wanted to get more money from SB with 2nd two pair, because he will call with that.

SB shows :Ks :Js
MP shows : :6s :8s

I was reading good, but didn't expect MP having 6 trip.
based on my shallow stack(on the turn), should I have shove on the turn? Reason I bet 1/4 pot on the turn was to dragging them with their flush and weak pair, willing to gamble, with my top pair, and same time, pot controlling to see if they have 2 pair and come top of me, and I could fold then.
Turn shove is not going to make 2 pair folding, and only weak flush draw will fold. think the result, may be Turn shove would have MP folded, but what do you think?

Don't just say limping with A9o from BTN isn't aggressive, :p, I just did it here, with a plan and lines I had for the night. but let me know if it's too bad.

Comments

  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think you are misapplying your talent for knowing where your opponents are.

    1) there is in fact no advantage to limping a hand this strong, but still marginally so, preflop. This action fails to build a pot, it decreases your equity, it caps your range.

    2) The turn raise is the least optimal sizing. Instead of forcing your opponents into an error, you are granting them the opportunity to play their hand perfectly, and leaving you in an odd spot on the river vis a vis the pot size.

    3) given your line, and spr, shoving turn allows you to play your hand perfectly.

    4) as played, you have gotten two streets, have not defined the hand because of the missized turn bet. Therefore you really do not know what you are betting into. I would bet into one opponent but not two if i had priced in everyone on the turn.
  • DavidLDavidL Red Chipper Posts: 16
    I think back this hand, raise Pre is much better line. Should have opened the pot.

    Turn is where I should have shoved for value.

    I think river was okay at this spot worst to chop since SB will call with 2nd two pair.
    I thought MP missed his draw there and should fold. He has been chasing the draw few hands before (he hot there before)
    Didn't expect to him to call there at all...
  • Ed MillerEd Miller RCP Coach Posts: 330
    I would raise pre for sure.

    Main thing I picked out of your post is that you wanted to "wrap it up there" with your flop raise. Whenever you have a hand with showdown value, your goal should never be to try to get everyone to fold. The only value a hand like top pair has comes at showdown. If you never get to showdown, you might as well have had two blank cards.

    In general, this play would be overaggressive for the games I play, but in your game it looks right. In particular, the river bet is ambitious after kickers no longer play, but given that you got called by a king, it's probably right.

    You were unlucky to run into a 6... but not that unlucky. Having said that, I probably would have played roughly the same way postflop (given the opponents you seem to have). Just your comment about wrapping it up bothered me, because your goal should not be to raise so much that everyone has to fold.
  • Ed MillerEd Miller RCP Coach Posts: 330
    I just read your reply. Did you say you expected MP to fold the turn for a $55 bet into a $200 pot? If so, that's a completely unreasonable expectation. I'd never fold that hand there for that bet size.

    Furthermore, the whole analysis feels a little confused... you seem to expect people to fold hands they'd likely never fold, but at the same call with hands that are really weak (i.e., SB calling with the king on the end).

    Again, basically when you have flopped top pair like this, you should be thinking about how to get people to call with weaker hands. Don't worry about people folding. Either they'll fold or they won't... that's up to them.
  • DavidLDavidL Red Chipper Posts: 16
    Ed Miller wrote:
    I just read your reply. Did you say you expected MP to fold the turn for a $55 bet into a $200 pot? If so, that's a completely unreasonable expectation. I'd never fold that hand there for that bet size.

    Furthermore, the whole analysis feels a little confused... you seem to expect people to fold hands they'd likely never fold, but at the same call with hands that are really weak (i.e., SB calling with the king on the end).

    Again, basically when you have flopped top pair like this, you should be thinking about how to get people to call with weaker hands. Don't worry about people folding. Either they'll fold or they won't... that's up to them.

    Ed,
    I think MP might have folded if he knew his flush draw was not good, if he put SB on other flush draw, he's getting like 7.5:1, but if he thought his flush was good then, 2.5:1.
    I think it depends.

    SB is real calling station, he doesn't even know what 2nd pair means,,, :p

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