Soto University

ChipXtractorChipXtractor Red Chipper Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭✭
edited January 2017 in General Concepts
Today is Day 1 of Class.

Anyone who wants to follow along or contribute/comment please feel free to do so.

This morning we are going to start with a video that is posted on the RedChipPoker YouTube channel. Below is the link.



This is a short discussion between @Christian Soto and @Matt Berkey. The general topic is 'Pain Thresholds' in poker. The video goes in a few different directions and different general topics are discussed. I like this video as a beginning point because it addresses a wider approach to the game then I would think most of us consider.

I will be posting a more in depth 'review' of the material on my Poker Vlog later this afternoon.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJTmsMBx6D1p_P9H6oRZEeA

For now I would suggest taking a quick look at the video if you are unfamiliar with this material or if you just want to refresh your understanding of the concepts discussed.

cXt
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Comments

  • Christian SotoChristian Soto RCP Coach Posts: 2,195 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2016
    Looking fwd to your more in depth review
  • RTLHPokerRTLHPoker Red Chipper Posts: 88 ✭✭
    edited September 2016
    1st assignment received and studied.

    I wasn't able to find the thread on 2p2 that Matt mentions at around the 8:30 mark. I searched for users "idaf" and idgaf" but was unsuccessful on both tries.

    Was anyone able to find the thread?
  • ChipXtractorChipXtractor Red Chipper Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭✭
    RTLHPoker wrote: »
    1st assignment received and studied.

    I wasn't able to find the thread on 2p2 that Matt mentions at around the 8:30 mark. I searched for users "idaf" and idgaf" but was unsuccessful on both tries.

    Was anyone able to find the thread?

    I actually did a quick search as well and came up short. I hope someone can find it and post the link here.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper Posts: 4,376 ✭✭✭✭✭
    probably talking about DGAF
  • porterporter Red Chipper Posts: 315 ✭✭✭
    Yes, poster's name is DGAF. Thread is here.
  • ChipXtractorChipXtractor Red Chipper Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭✭
    - Soto U Day 1 Video Review

  • Skors3Skors3 Red Chipper Posts: 669 ✭✭✭
    Well done. By far your best yet. This might as well be a training video.
  • Christian SotoChristian Soto RCP Coach Posts: 2,195 ✭✭✭✭
    Very interesting. Your head is in the right place.
  • ChipXtractorChipXtractor Red Chipper Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭✭
    Skors3 wrote: »
    Well done. By far your best yet. This might as well be a training video.

    Thanks Jason. I appreciate you taking the time to watch the video.

    It was a lot of fun to do this 'review' and of course it was very very informative for me. I think I am going to do the same type of thing w/every video I watch from now on. Most of which I probably won't post to be honest. It really allows me to gather me thoughts by recording them. Hopefully the process pays off for me long term. I believe it will.

    cXt
  • ChipXtractorChipXtractor Red Chipper Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭✭
    Very interesting. Your head is in the right place.

    Thanks Christian. And thank you for allowing me to use the video footage.

    cXt
  • Riverboat BillRiverboat Bill Red Chipper Posts: 454 ✭✭
    Today is Day 1 of Class.

    Anyone who wants to follow along or contribute/comment please feel free to do so.

    This morning we are going to start with a video that is posted on the RedChipPoker YouTube channel. Below is the link.



    This is a short discussion between @Christian Soto and @Matt Berkey. The general topic is 'Pain Thresholds' in poker. The video goes in a few different directions and different general topics are discussed. I like this video as a beginning point because it addresses a wider approach to the game then I would think most of us consider.

    I will be posting a more in depth 'review' of the material on my Poker Vlog later this afternoon.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJTmsMBx6D1p_P9H6oRZEeA

    For now I would suggest taking a quick look at the video if you are unfamiliar with this material or if you just want to refresh your understanding of the concepts discussed.

    cXt
    I love the video and the thought process. I am at a point where I am starting to see more of the game. I can spot marks(my marks) and getting a little better at staying away from people. By staying away I mean calling with a tighter range from flop to river.

    I was playing on a table the other day and exactly what you mention was going own. The money was just circling around and whoever caught cards was winning. In this case it was one of the better players, so it ferments his image of being good. But he was not outplaying the table. He was better at maximizing the pocket KK's he was getting. Somehow, they were calling his bets.

    So, I saw the opportunity to open up and outplay people after the flop. The problem I run into is they won't play anything but great starting hands. So, I dance out to produce action. The only way one will continue is with a very good hand. I then have to repeat ($$$) until I loosen up the action. I still have to keep an eye the regs who will only come in with KK, scoop a big pot and go back in a shell.

    On a weak table I can push them off pots and get them to continue when I catch a set or a double gutter. But again, may problem is with the regs and pros who sit there daily grinding. Part of it for me as well is I can only do this at 1/2-1/3 with my BR. It takes a buy-in to prime the pump. I usually will buy-in with 50bb and start buying up to the table max. If I lose 25bb, I'll add 50bb. I have chips in my pocket and start getting black chips in the game.

    Pain threshold. I need to restudy that. I take a lot of flops down with continuation bets. I usually bet 75% of the pot, plus extra for each player still holding cards. I will do this no matter what I have except when an A hits the flop or two b'way cards. On those flops I bet if I have top pair or better. This is also a spot where I put out a Feeler Bet, maybe half the pot to see who continues.

    Again, I try to do this a lot. But if I hit a table with @berkey11 and @Christian Soto sitting there, I'm toast.

  • Riverboat BillRiverboat Bill Red Chipper Posts: 454 ✭✭
    - Soto U Day 1 Video Review

    This is a must watch.
  • tfaziotfazio Red Chipper Posts: 819 ✭✭✭
    Great video. good to see you break it down so well. I have seen it a couple times before
    I think the original thread that Chin talks about was redacted or taken down. Have you searched for it?
  • JulesJules Red Chipper Posts: 441 ✭✭✭
    EXCELLENT Mr ChipXtrator!! Don't you remember on Poker Night? They were like what do you do with @berkey11 5x open?

    My only suggestion is we need to become wombats instead of rabbits, because wombats have deep holes but many of them. More outs! They also are survivors and can adjust to different environments. :)

    Really appreciate you taking the time to do this and share your thoughts. You really are motivating.
  • thepokermonkthepokermonk Red Chipper Posts: 320 ✭✭✭
    Great 1st video ChipXTractor. I really like the format. I learned a lot and was inspired to step up my own study. Keep up the good work!
  • eugeniusjreugeniusjr Red Chipper Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    I watched the Berkey interview four or five times. Mindblowing, but I have questions:

    What does it mean for a range to "outgamble" you? Can we rephrase that we lose too much postflop opportunity by tightening our range?

    How does one force opponents to make mistakes?

    If you're not getting it in with the best of it, how do you win?

    Berkey speaks of maximizing by shifting from hand advantage.... to what? Hand reading and entertaining?

    You (ChipX) mentioned that we have to work harder on our game. What is this work? Is it work on hand reading?

  • ChipXtractorChipXtractor Red Chipper Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭✭
    This is a must watch.

    Thanks Bill. I appreciate you taking the time to watch.

    tfazio wrote: »
    Great video. good to see you break it down so well. I have seen it a couple times before
    I think the original thread that Chin talks about was redacted or taken down. Have you searched for it?

    Thank you. It was a fun video to do and of course really got me thinking...
    I remember that original thread. Have not looked for it but cant see why it would have been taken down?
    Jules wrote: »
    EXCELLENT Mr ChipXtrator!! Don't you remember on Poker Night? They were like what do you do with @berkey11 5x open?

    My only suggestion is we need to become wombats instead of rabbits, because wombats have deep holes but many of them. More outs! They also are survivors and can adjust to different environments. :)

    Really appreciate you taking the time to do this and share your thoughts. You really are motivating.

    Thanks. I know it was kinda long but there was a ton of stuff to cover so I tried to keep manageable. Thank you for watching.

    I did watch the Poker Night episode and found the reaction to his sizing really interesting. Even accomplished players were a bit out of sorts with his play. Interesting stuff for sure.
    Great 1st video ChipXTractor. I really like the format. I learned a lot and was inspired to step up my own study. Keep up the good work!

    Thank you sir. I am glad you liked the format. I will probably try and do a few more like this going forward. Had fun doing it.

    cXt
  • ChipXtractorChipXtractor Red Chipper Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭✭
    eugeniusjr wrote: »
    I watched the Berkey interview four or five times. Mindblowing, but I have questions:

    What does it mean for a range to "outgamble" you? Can we rephrase that we lose too much postflop opportunity by tightening our range?

    How does one force opponents to make mistakes?

    If you're not getting it in with the best of it, how do you win?

    Berkey speaks of maximizing by shifting from hand advantage.... to what? Hand reading and entertaining?

    You (ChipX) mentioned that we have to work harder on our game. What is this work? Is it work on hand reading?

    This might be a good post for Christian to answer if he wants. I have some ideas but would rather him comment and me learn right along with you.

    cXt
  • Riverboat BillRiverboat Bill Red Chipper Posts: 454 ✭✭
    I have a friend I mention sometimes. Someone commented his advice was very bad. He plays like they were discussing. I am always trying to get some secret tip from him. How? I have seen him crushing a 200NL, while playing at a final table. I ask him, how do you get them to call THAT bet? He is action. When he sits down, the chips start moving. He is constantly pushing chips into the middle. He says I like to see them squirm. Pain threshold. I say "I remember when people didn't even make as much money a week as the size of that bet" He says "They are just chips, RB. That's how you have to look at it. Just Chips."
  • Riverboat BillRiverboat Bill Red Chipper Posts: 454 ✭✭
    edited September 2016
    @ChipXtractor said "After a few hours of playing this way I got very tired. I mean mentally exhausted. I guess I did not really grasp how taxing this approach could be. I started to revert back to passive lines and sizing. "

    You have a good way of expressing your thinking. You describe exactly how I have felt playing this style. So, I back off. Yesterday, I decided instead plan to shorten my sessions. Play X hours, take a break and play some more. When I first started playing, it seemed like it was my turn so quick. I felt the game was so fast. Then the game slowed down.

    I didn't win when I first started playing. I had to learn. I have had some big runs. I don't want to lose three buy ins and leave the table. But to change and understand the flow of a new style, that's what it might take. It's not an easy playbook. What before might cost 20bb, might cost 60bb. But when the money runs, it will run good.

    Now, we have skills. We got @SplitSuit showing how to know more of what hands the V is holding. We got him ranged and playing off balance. We are very good post flop players. We do have to remember when doing this, if it's a table full of pros/regs we are playing guys who are not going to be easy, easy to beat.

    There still has to be some balance. Certain basics are still going to apply, but we have to write the book. So, it's hard work with the promise of a big reward. It ain't for the faint of heart.
  • eugeniusjreugeniusjr Red Chipper Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    I tried it yesterday too. I mostly felt like I was, ahem, isolating myself with better hands than mine who would not fold. I think I need to look at it more like you did Bill - look for situations where ranges are weak and apply pressure.

    After punting 230bbs where I usually walk away with a profit of 50-100bbs, I want(ed) to go back to my old value-bet-the-callers ways.
  • ChipXtractorChipXtractor Red Chipper Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭✭
    For me the session was really about trying to shift my default mental state. I know that a lot of my struggle going forward will be within my own head. Whether I like to admit it or not I have issues with failure. With success as well really. Losing and winning both bring up different types of difficult feelings. I know, kinda crazy.

    That being the case however I need to just let myself play cards. Not be afraid of outcomes so to speak. It will be an ongoing journey of discovery for me and that is really what I am excited about. Same-Same is getting Boring-Boring.

    I was completely unprepared to try and play the style effectively yesterday. I knew that going in. But the simple fact of being 'afraid' and still fighting I feel will pay dividends going forward. Hope it will anyway.

    cXt

  • eugeniusjreugeniusjr Red Chipper Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2016
    Persuadeo, is looking for weakness and piling on a good place to start?

    Let's just say that I don't know where to begin...
  • Christian SotoChristian Soto RCP Coach Posts: 2,195 ✭✭✭✭
    The focus shifts from value towards folding out our opponent's equity share.
  • eugeniusjreugeniusjr Red Chipper Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    So, we take lines that shut out their equity share even if ours is greater? Is there a point at which, say we have 80% equity, we bet differently?

    Is it about creating big pots, taking them down, and confusing our opponents?

    Or is aggression the tool we use to force others into mistakes (by pestering them)?
  • tfaziotfazio Red Chipper Posts: 819 ✭✭✭
    "After a few hours of playing this way I got very tired. I mean mentally exhausted. I guess I did not really grasp how taxing this approach could be. I started to revert back to passive lines and sizing. Thing was the other players followed right along. The limping started up again. No more 3-betting. Lets of checking back. I thought it was really interesting."
    I know what you mean all of a sudden you find yourself open limping. It's that in these low stakes games players allow you to limp when you want. If they punished us more we wouldn't do it. The idea for me is to be aggressive and discourage the limpers and keep it up to not let the game slip back into a limp fest. Lets face it people like to play hands cheap. I find that once I establish my image as aggressive it will resonate even if i'm card dead and not playing hands but once I start limping it reverts pack to a bingo game. The thing I have realized is that this aggressive style is going to put me in a lot more tough post flop spots. You really have to ramp up your post flop skills. Otherwise its just becomes spew.
  • ChipXtractorChipXtractor Red Chipper Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭✭
    Day 2 of Class

    This next video is also on YouTube. It is a recent review session of online hands played. It is a longer video than the last and gets into more specific spots.



    Tomorrow we will post a review of the information covered in the video.

    cXt

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