Flopped Flush- Max Value or Max Pain?

vegasstylevegasstyle Red Chipper Posts: 11
edited January 2015 in Live Poker Hands
2/5 Game- New Years Eve - Las Vegas.

Set Up: This hand was against a 23 year old Regular that has a pretty aggressive style. Our most recent history is from a game last Saturday where he had been 3 betting me all night and I was folding, I picked up AA's and made it look like I was finally tired of his 3 bets and was now making a stand. I ended up taking down a $4,000 pot and stacking him for $1,900.

Present Hand:

Starting stacks are: Hero stack is about $1700 and the Villain has about $1500
In this present hand he opened from late position with one other limper to $25. I called him from the button with a :Jd :9d . The limper folds.

Flop :Ad :8d :4d

Pot $57

He leads for $25. I make it $75.

He tanks for a minute and makes it $225. My question is, do I smooth call the $225 hoping to get more value and hope another diamond does not come,or do I re-raise here hoping that he makes a mistake?

My thoughts are, if he does hold an Ace with a K or Q of diamonds and I re-raise his $225, he may shove drawing to 7 outs, IE another diamond. On the other hand, If I smooth call his $225 my hand is somewhat disguised and the pot will now have over $500 in it. His turn bet will likely be quite large. Knowing him, $300-$500. Do I ever risk another diamond coming off on the turn to get more value, since my hand is very vulnerable as I only have a Jack-high flush?

Comments

  • jimbo123jimbo123 Red Chipper Posts: 106 ✭✭
    Think I reraise-GII here vs his sets of AA,88,44 and weaker flushes.

    A good aggressive regular isolating a limper will have a lot of suited rubbish like 96s, 75s in his range if he isn't being 3b mercilessly by other regs. This makes this an easy stack-off on the flop, especially as the Ad is on board.

    Both options look super strong, on the off-chance he's light here. If you flat he will (or at least should!) probably slow down. Think i just reraise though, if he wants to stack off here with 44 then you don't want to see a diamond or the 8h on the turn!
  • tagliustaglius Red Chipper Posts: 272 ✭✭
    I'm getting it in now, especially based on your history.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 2,555 ✭✭✭✭✭
    An aggressive player from late position isolating a limp does not rate to have a set here often, but a big diamond makes sense, or even some two pairs. Usually it is better to raise, but here you get to use your hard-won knowledge and slowplay him if you like, since you're confident he is going to bet a diamond draw big, and shove the turn to put him in a box. However, since he is so aggressive you think he is going to shove now if you raise, the obvious answer is to click it back and watch the wheels come off.
  • vegasstylevegasstyle Red Chipper Posts: 11
    Thank you everyone for all of you answers and feedback. It really helps me see the hand from many sides and expands my game.

    Again, Many thanks.
  • sunfishsunfish Red Chipper Posts: 29 ✭✭
    I would have reraised too and would have been happy to get it all in.

    You are so far ahead of his range and by playing aggressive, you are repping a flush draw with either the :Kd or :Qd and there is a good chance he may call if he thinks he is ahead.

    What happened with the rest of the hand?
  • mdw72mdw72 Red Chipper Posts: 120 ✭✭
    You pointed out the vulnerability of your hand and considering your position on him I would just call. Any non diamond on the turn can be used to put pressure on his check or bet. By pot controlling just a bit you can get away from your hand if a fourth diamond hits and you really think he has the higher flush. I think getting it in on the flop only makes sense if you the :Kd or :Qd. With that hand you only have to really be worried about the board pairing. With your hand any diamond is scary and potentially disastrous. Since he's aggressive I don't think calling necessarily will close his action. You can't be scared of one single hand but :Kd :Qd is out there in his range and he has to reference Ed Miller he has "shown you twice" with his donk bet and re-raise that he has a hand he really likes.
  • goodtimesgoodtimes Red Chipper Posts: 61
    Here's the problem with solid aggressive players - if you're not aggressive enough in these spots, he's going to be able to get away/lose the minimum a lot of times with the range youre crushing, which means flatting is going to be perceived as strength the time he has the range of hands w/ the least equity vs the flopped flush range.

    The other problem is your 300 BBs deep w/ the 3rd nuts and his GII range isnt (should not) include top 2 say if you're not aggressive in these sort of spots (your history with villain would lead me to conclude you tend to roll over a bit in the past until you pick up a nutted hand, whether he will pick up on that is a different story). In other words - his range based on your actions should heavily be weighted towards decent flopped flushes.

    I agree that he's less likely to have sets here so most of his range at present looks something like Kxdd Qxdd, 67dd, 56dd. You're blocking a lot of other combos T9dd, JTdd, QJdd & board blocks 89, 87 etc etc.

    I'm confused by your line of thought when you say youre worried that by raising he may shove a Kd or Qd hand but somehow by calling the hand will play easier?

    You do realize if you give him just KQdd and AxKd, you're still ahead?

    I think another important thing to consider is i'd feel more comfortable with your image calling his AI rather than him calling our AI - i can expand on this if necessary.
  • karbynkarbyn Red Chipper Posts: 108
    He's shown a propensity to want to get it in ... donk + 3bet. Do you want to get it in too?
    His range that outflops you is :Kd :Xd, :Qd :Xd ... even counting every combo here it still isn't many. I would count KQ, KT, QT, K9 and 2 others for balance.

    Everything else you are way ahead of. What is the rest of his range?
    :A? :Xd , :7d :6d , :6d :5d
    :A? :K? , :A? :Q? , :A? :J?, :A? ?X?
    :A? :A? , :8? :8? , :4? :4?, :7? :6?

    and don't forget :atc1 :atc2 as a bluff

    If he is as aggro as you say, he could prob 3 bet this whole range to apply maximum pressure. Are you comfortable getting it on the turn even if its :Xd? Even then he might hang himself either way on the turn or river either by bluffing or overrepping his hand

    Me, I'm raising.