99 SB facing an all in

JulesJules Red Chipper Posts: 441 ✭✭✭
So I played a live $350 bi today that was a very long long grind. Different structure in which 9% of field advances to day 2 and will be in the money at start of day 2. (ended up being 10 out of 101entries)

16k ss 30 min levels

Blinds were 200/400/50 9 handed

I was in the SB with :9s:9c 23000 stack (57bbs)

Ugg +2 ships 8k (20bbs) Played with this guy a few times and when he ships it's usually not too lite.

Folds around to me. BB to my left has just re bought so 16k ss stack (40bbs) I know nothing about this guy except that he was already on his 3rd bullet.

What should I do? Call 20 bbs with :9s:9c ? Or go all in? Or of course fold....

I got into a discussion with a friend of mind about this hand. We both had very different views of how I should of played the hand. I'm curious to know what y'all think? I'll share more of my thoughts later to keep it pure. :)


  • delakevdelakev Red Chipper Posts: 36 ✭✭
    Based on your assessment of the BB, it sounds like calling might entice him to come in fairly light-- I could be wrong, but in my experience anyone firing three bullets live or in a tourney is looking to be gamble-y, playing bad or both. I would imagine that 99 is going to be ahead of much of his range. Either way, he isn't my main concern--it is the open-shove.

    I do not believe folding is an option. Calling is my gut answer, with trying to induce the 40bb stack to come with. I am trying to argue a reason for raising all in, but I cannot. Yes it would suck to get hit with an over and something like J8, but you want those hands in. I don't think a raise would get rid of KQ or A10 anyways.

    Call and call a re-shove.

    How did it turn out?
  • BotswanaNickBotswanaNick Red Chipper Posts: 696 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2016
    Open-shoving from UTG+2 for 20bb is a bit unusual to see. On the one hand, for some opponents you can discount AA and maybe KK because many players won't shove so big with those hands. On the other, this is only a profitable shove with a very narrow range of hands so if you suspect the player is on the tight side, I would expect to see a lot of AK and QQ-TT. Even 88 is not a profitable Nash shove for villain. So if you think they are aware of Nash shoving ranges, or suspect they are playing even tighter than Nash, I think its a close fold. It wouldn't be difficult to swing it to a call however.

    PS are rebuys still available? If so, that might loosen a normally tight villain's shoving range a bit.
  • David Kimweli Jr.David Kimweli Jr. Red Chipper Posts: 161
    I'm not sure how calling with pocket 9's OOP 3-way with a sub 1 SPR can ever be profitable unless it's part of a cooperation play, and those only come into play at big pay jumps. I believe you should fold or shove depending on your read on UTG +2. You probably have a better picture of villain's range than I do but if he's on the slightly tighter side you're probably looking at T's+/AJ+. Against this range it's close but I'd be folding. Often times even tight players will be shoving some weaker pairs that you dominate because they lack the discipline to fold them at this stack depth. If villain has these in his range than it's a pretty easy shove with 9's, so I'd go with whatever read you have on villain.
  • JulesJules Red Chipper Posts: 441 ✭✭✭
    1. This was the start of this level so there was this level and 2 more before rebuys were not available.

    2. So @delakev you think it would be ok to flat 1/3 of my stack and if the BB goes all in call the other 20bbs? I think that is what you were saying? So why not just go all in? (all this was going through my head at the time). I agree that the BB isn't as much of the decision as the early open shover. And he really wasn't the one I was as concerned about.

    I'm not sure how calling with pocket 9's OOP 3-way with a sub 1 SPR can ever be profitable unless it's part of a cooperation play, and those only come into play at big pay jumps. I believe you should fold or shove depending on your read on UTG +2.

    This is how I was approaching my decision. If I'm going to put in 1/3 of my stack then aren't I committed? Is this too nitty to think like this?

    I don't want to talk results yet. See if anyone else has anything to add. This is interesting how we evaluate spots so differently.
  • delakevdelakev Red Chipper Posts: 36 ✭✭
    I think the difference between calling and shoving is the message you are giving to the BB and ultimately what you are trying to influence him to do. You calling perhaps gives him the sense that there is some fold equity if he shoves. By jamming there, he knows that there is 0 fold equity and he is gambling.

    Based off of your read, I want that guy in there and I think the best chance to get him to come along is to just call. I don't think shoving is horrible, but I think there is a better chance that you isolate the All-In guy.
  • JulesJules Red Chipper Posts: 441 ✭✭✭
    So I folded. SB woke up to Queens and makes the call of course. Early position shows Eights! I would have flopped a set and rivered quads. So as hand plays out I'm just sick. Of course the result of the hand made me question my fold. Now can I just flat with nines and fold if the SB goes all in? I truly felt like pre flop flatting a 20 bb all in was not an option with a hand like nines. It was an all in or fold situation? I try so hard to make good decisions pre. I was considering it then I kept thinking jeez 1/3 of my stack?

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