Creative line OOP? Thoughts?

uglytunauglytuna Red Chipper Posts: 130 ✭✭
I would like to discuss a hand that I played over this past weekend. I played in Charity event where first place was a 2017 WSOP Main Event seat. I’ve had some past history success at these events. Generally these events host around 40-60 players. The secondary prizes are a ham sandwich as only first place prize is only important to me.

This event had about 40+ players. I got off to a fast start then stayed afloat for a few hours. Then slowly chipped up after the rebuy period was over. Then dragged a monster post when I tripled up. With about 12 player remaining I had an interesting hand that I’m not sure I played it very well.

The line I take in this hand, I’ve find myself making more often lately and wondering if you can give me your thoughts.

Let me set the scene, we are on the final table bubble however this bubble is basically shit. They awarded miscellaneous prizes for place for 2 through 10 but it’s a ham sandwich all under the cost of the buyin for this event.

My table was shorthanded (6 players) and I was the table chip leader with approximately 220K. The villain in this hand was sitting on a stack of 160-170K. The two of us had all the chips, the rest of the players had 100K or less. My image at the time was LAG. I was opening a lot of pots and especially against the BB (in this hand) as he was not defending his hand nearly enough. My aggression was at the point that players started to play back at me just a bit. I remained balance on my opens and just because I was getting 3B jammed on, it did not deter my opening frequencies. Although I was keen enough to know, these players are starting to give me some resistance, I was not bluffing or trying to muscle these players out of any pots.

The villain (Eddie, I think that was his name) in this hand, which I had no prior history ever and only been playing with him for couple of hours. Eddie seemed capable and a solid player but apparently accumulated lots of his chips when the deck hit him all day.

The hand begins with me opening the HJ with 65d. I elected to open this hand because the BB rarely defends. My raise possible can steal the button and I would hold position and initiative. If the BB did defend I can effectively beat him with any two cards as long it doesn’t hit his range. After think about this hand, I’ll admit now that I probably fold 65s because of a Eddie on the button, arm with a big stack and holding position on me. However because the BB does not defend it swayed me otherwise and I opened.

I've learned to pay attention of the player on the button before raising. So if I see a good player with a stack and loves his button, it will deter me from opening with my trashy holdings. I overlooked this advice in this hand.

So with the blind 3000-6000, I open to 15K and Eddie flats OTB and the blinds fold down. I’m pretty much done with this hand unless I flop two pair or draw.

FLOP: Td 7d 2c

I elected to check here. I do balance my bets and check here. More often than not, I generally lead with my naked FD in a heads-up pot.

Here, I didn’t want to be 3B off my FD especially when its only 6 high FD. Eddie bets 25K and after some be thought I called and range with lots of Tx hands. Yes, SD are possible like 98, J9 but discounted them. Same with FD because I have two blockers to a FD. So hands like AT, KT, JT, QT and even some positional air is possible.

TURN: 4h

This is where my line goes astray, not optimal and the reason for the email. After talking with my buddy Paul (A fellow player who I respect at the tables), his advice is C/C the Turn is his preferred play.

However I’ve find myself taking this creative line more often lately with a mix bag of results.

With approximately 90K in the pot, I donked bet Turn for 33K. I did this for a few reasons;

(1) I can simply bet here and win the pot right here, pretty ambitious but may work if the villain has air. If the villain was just betting because I check the flop, folds may happen so of the time.
(2) My bet sizing was a pot control line. More importantly, I felt if I did check the Turn the Villain will probably barrel the Turn for a larger amount. If Eddie has top pair he will more likely bet 50% or bigger to punish me for my draws. So with me betting its allowing me to set my own price on the pot, which probably cheaper than a future C/C. I just don’t think I’ll see that many check backs from the Eddie on the Turn.
(3) Betting, narrows the villains range further.
(4) Lastly, If I didn’t pick up an OESD on the Turn, I probably would C/C if the price was right. Since I did pick up equity with a FD and SD, I am building a pot if I hit.

Paul does not like this line betting to build the pot. I will whiff too often, costing me chips vs the only player at the table that could hurt me. Paul prefers a C/C on the Turn but he did agree that I mostly likely save money with my bet sizing on this street.

Regarding the Turn action, I was mostly likely folding to any large 3B.

Eddie gave some thought to my bet and called the 33K.


Although I preferred to hit my straight outs, I did hit one of my flush outs. I believe I have the best hand. I make a bet of 45k, a good sizing for someone with Tx to call. Eddie gave some thought and announces he is All-in !!!

Fuck, after throwing up in my mouth, I went deep into the tank and tried to determine what he was representing.

It was very easy to rule out all Sets and Two pairs, as those hand would be raising the Turn on such a wet board. Plus not many two pair combos that make much sense here. Top pair and all one pair holding are only calling my River bet. Could he be raising top pair as a bluff? History says not likely. Back door straight are possible but unlikely holdings.

If this villain has Ace or King high flushes absolutely could 3B shove. It’s very possible for Eddie to bet his FD on the Flop, C/C the Turn and Jam the River if he is holding Axd.

Paul thinks, I should C/C the River as I would be able to see a showdown without going all-in. Plus it gives the Villain in this spot to bet all their one pair, two pair holding to be snapped off. After reviewing the hand with Paul that makes more sense to C/C Turn and C/C River. Do you agree? Can you build a case, that you could play the hand in my fashion.

After deliberating for a while, I folded the hand. Later on, Eddie pulled me on the side on a break. Asked if I really had a Flush? He confided in me that he had A2d, if he was telling the truth. I felt his response was genuine.

So I’m asking you if I should ever play a baby FD which pickup more outs on the Turn in the manner I did?

Thoughts please.

Now I listen, hope you can add to this?


  • kageykagey Red Chipper, KINGOFTAGS Posts: 2,241 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2016
    in a cash game - this is a good line. (and you might have to call!)
    in a tourney, it's spew.... and with every chip saved being as valuable as chips won... being "creative" with straightforward players is wasteful.
  • David Kimweli Jr.David Kimweli Jr. Red Chipper Posts: 161
    I actually like your play on the turn because with 15 outs you should rarely fold if/when villain bets and as mentioned in the OP leading let's you set you're own price. You showed a lot of discipline folding to villain's river jam and I don't see any other line other than bet-folding in that spot.
  • uglytunauglytuna Red Chipper Posts: 130 ✭✭
    I asked on of my friends in the poker world. A east coast professional with about 2 milly in earning. He response was the following;

    Lead flop. As played, CR flop/shove all turns. 
    If you get to the turn the way you did, CRAI on turn (assuming his sizing gives you FE). Especially in this format. 
    I'm probably folding river too as played.
    Note that nothing I would have done would save you, but the results are the least important part.

    Whats your thoughts of this line. I kinda like it !


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