Former live MTT player coming back, struggling to relearn/adjust

bensnyderbensnyder Red Chipper Posts: 23 ✭✭
edited October 2016 in New To Poker Questions
I used to play live MTTs semi-regularly. I struggled with beating players I considered bad/weak because it was near impossible to put them on a hand. More accurately, it seemed (key word) impossible to beat them because they'd get lucky suck out. Eventually, I overcame this and became a profitable player winning a few events at Binion's (Horseshoe, at the time) and The Golden Nugget as well as cashing some local charity events outside of Vegas.

An example of what I'm talking about is (sorry if this isn't as pretty as some others, I'm still learning the site):
slightly above average stack for the table, Hero is UTG, Villain is in SB with a slightly larger stack.
Hero - Pocket AA, opens with a 'standard raise' (2-3x BB)
Fold/limp around to Villain, who calls
Flop: A27 rainbow
Villain bets ~1/2 the pot
Hero shoves all in
Remaining players fold to Villain, who calls (he has me covered by a small margin)

Cards turn face up, I show my set, he shows...

Turn and River come out as 5 and 6 giving Villain a straight, beating my set and ending my tournament. I understand shoving may not have been the best action from a value perspective (I really don't know), but I tend to lean toward using 'tournament life' as a part of the wager. By that, I mean that I tend to make people decide to risk their tournament life, or demonstrate that I am confident enough in my hand to risk mine. I understand that Villain might have assumed a bluff, but observed play from previous hands indicated he's not that savvy.

I'm finding I'm having the same struggles as I did back in the day (the hand example above is from a tournament last night at my local casino). I know the game has evolved in my ~10yr break, but I'm wondering if I just need more time at the tables to improve my play and memory of player hands (which is how I improved before) to beat the donkeys or if there's something in that evolution of the game that I'm missing. Regardless, I am struggling to fight through the frustration of the (re)learning process and any feedback is greatly appreciated.


  • ZENIZENZENIZEN Red Chipper Posts: 166 ✭✭
    This guy stopped licking windows long enough to call a flop shove from an UTG opponent with 84o.... He might have realized it was seafood night at the buffet all the sudden or he got tired of sitting there . Other then that what how many BB left in your stacks . For example under 15ish BB shoving starts to become your only move .
  • bensnyderbensnyder Red Chipper Posts: 23 ✭✭
    edited October 2016
    It was a 'power stack' tournament starting with 15k. At the time of this hand, blinds were 200/400 with 25 ante. we were both still deep stacked. I had ~25k he had ~27k.

    I don't recall, exactly, but there I think when the flop came, the pot was ~5k, Villain's bet bumped it up to ~8k. My bet was, I admit, way over sized. I've gotten so frustrated with hands like this that I sometimes would rather win the pot now rather than give someone a chance to improve. I know I'd play this differently in cash, which I'm not very experienced with, to be honest.

    Appreciate the feedback, but that was just an example of how my 'luck' seems to have been running as I'm getting back in the swing of playing. I know some of those instances is me not playing correctly, but I can't accept I'm bad enough for all of them to be my fault :-)
  • ZENIZENZENIZEN Red Chipper Posts: 166 ✭✭
    Keep on trucking ...Even the best tournament players have a fairly low ROI. If you got guys making these plays your definitely in the right games . The way I typed it in flopzilla he had 3 % equity lol . Poker can be a cruel mistress.
  • bensnyderbensnyder Red Chipper Posts: 23 ✭✭
    indeed it can be cruel.

    Thanks again for the feedback
  • ZENIZENZENIZEN Red Chipper Posts: 166 ✭✭
    Ty sir .... As far as some of the newer tournament poker strats go check out the " Nash Equilibrium " theories and the push/fold charts associated with it . Also there is some blind warfare going on recently that i'm not totally familiar with . Some people would say tournament poker is solved under say 30 ish BB <Dont quote me on this Im more of a cash game guy> but I out of principle simply disagree. Bubble play has been touted to the point most people are at least conceptually aware of its basic principles. Other then that depending on the structure most of your maneuverability is going to be best utilized while stacks are deep enough to exploit implied odds .
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 5,007 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think the most likely way to make money in that hand is against someone with an ace, or from someone thinking you might be bluffing the ace. Your hand isn't vulnerable and you have a monster, so shoving probably isn't best, especially if you think people are going to be unwilling to "risk their tournament life".

    Did your opponent give any reason for his call? Because it doesn't really make any sense.

    I always recommend people read Arnold Snyder for a different perspective post-Harrington.

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