flopped set on gross board

JulesJules Red Chipper Posts: 441 ✭✭✭
I'm pretty sure I played this hand terribly. But I have to ask anyway. :) Live tourney.
20kss 20min levels until level 13 then goes to 30 min levels. Rebuys through level 12!

Blinds 200/400/75
Hero: 29k (72 bbs)
Villlian: 20 k (50 bbs) Had just rebought. I don't know him at all.

:8h:8s middle postion
2 limpers I limped along. Two more limpers followed as well as the blinds.

Pot:3475

Flop: :5s:6s:8c

check check. I bet 2k. Fold fold. BU re raised to 7k. Everyone folds. What should I do?
My thoughts:
1 Should I have raised pre?
2 Since I didn't should I be check calling here?

Whatever other options opinions are appreciated.

Comments

  • kageykagey Red Chipper, KINGOFTAGS Posts: 2,241 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I prefer to raise hands when I enter a pot with a nice pp.
    But would that have gotten But to fold? who knows.
    So don't beat yourself up on that.

    next:
    flop bet.
    pot is 3.4k. you bet 2k.
    I recently heard a podcast where Jonathon Little explains that he likes the "little bet" concept because it allows a good tourney player to play more hands for the same stack - than if they would had they opened for 3X or bet bigger on the flop.
    with that idea stuck in my head as a "more optimal" way to play in tourneys - I find your flop bet on the "larger" side.
    I dont think you're getting a lot of 7s to fold nor big FDs.
    So you're not really getting "protection" with your 2k bet.
    I think 1.5 would accomplish the same.
    But I would bet here - I don't want for my opponents to get a totally free turn when you've got a monster hand.

    But now the dilemma...
    V just rebought. Has 20k - and is raising our flop bet.... strongly, I might add.
    well, we can't fold.
    if he's got 97, we've still got outs.
    If he's got :9S::7S: ... well, he ain't never folding.... but we can beat that too.

    since we know nothing about V - his range probably goes from pair + sd to sd +fd....
    as well as smaller sets and 2-pairs.

    Since it's a rebuy - you have 2 options:
    1.) shove and leave variance to the poker gods.
    2.) call and pray for the board to pair. (cuz he's probably shoving most turns)

    i dunno...
    flip a coin?
  • MonadMonad Red Chipper Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭✭
    Limp pre is fine. So is raising. Bet of 60% pot OK but 75-80% maybe more standard/safe. 3bet shoving makes sense on flop based on 1) wet texture 2) out of position 3) medium stack sizes/spr
  • JulesJules Red Chipper Posts: 441 ✭✭✭
    Well then! I guess I didn't play it as bad as I thought! :) Thanks @Monad and @kagey!

    I do feel as if I should of raised pre though and for one reason only. BU limped in with 47o. So he flopped the straight. I had a feeling, but wasn't too sure if he was maybe on fd?? I shipped it! If I would just called his 3 bet I may of gotten away from it on the turn when the flush came? The last time I played a set like that though and the flush came the guy showed top pair. That was super tilting! I hear people always say never folding top set there. So I guess my line was ok and I just got unlucky?
  • kageykagey Red Chipper, KINGOFTAGS Posts: 2,241 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jules wrote: »
    Well then! I guess I didn't play it as bad as I thought! :) Thanks @Monad and @kagey!
    I played in a tourney where some guy limped in early position - I raised in back with TT - BB came along, so EP called.
    Flop was 2s 2c 4s
    Checked to me - I bet, BB folded, EP raised.
    I tanked, considered his entire range - then shipped.
    He called.
    He had 23os.

    Some guys are going to play what they're gonna play... it one of the reasons I have a distaste for donkaments.

    Moral of the story: for all you know, BUT was calling (he might have been on tilt)
    and you were losing your stack anyway. Unless you're 90% sure V is only raising with the nuts, folding here is often exploitable and -EV.
  • JulesJules Red Chipper Posts: 441 ✭✭✭
    Ok thank you @kagey! That's why I shipped it. I say I might of gotten away. But most likely not! Who am I fooling? Lol! If board paired I would have been sitting with a sweet stack! Such a bummer! Still will bother me about not raising pre.
  • BenLeewoodBenLeewood Red Chipper Posts: 285 ✭✭
    This is a must raise situation. you have 29k. Standard raise of 1k-2k gets all the riff raff out. also only commits a small percentage of your stack. There's just no good reason to limp along here. It's not a set mining situation.

    Even though you hit the flop hard, since it's an unraised pot, you let in the shitty hands that will cause you a big headache in a tournament. Like :Ts:7s , :7d:6d , :7c:8c

    Is this a small buy in tournament? If it is, many players with :7s:Xd will gladly ship it in here and rebuy or head to the cash games.

    By taking a standard line here, you will usually win a rather meaningless ~1k pot. But if you're raise is called.......Oh boy!!!! Now we're in business against an over pair, or 2 high cards. You can pretty much discount a flopped straight and a 7. In most cases, you will bet the flop and :Ks:Qd will fold. Which nets you ~2.5k.

    It's only wrong to "set mine" when trying to set a trap is not the ideal play. This is one of those situations.
  • uglytunauglytuna Red Chipper Posts: 130 ✭✭
    When you flop a huge on a scary board, I tend to bet larger. I never slow play a board like this. If V plays back at me, I'm trying to get stacks in. If the V has 97, god bless him. More often then not players are on a draw here. Sometimes they have two pair or have pair with a very good draw.

    Against those holding my set is way ahead. Build a pot and get it in.

    Tuna
  • david wdavid w Red Chipper Posts: 54 ✭✭
    I think limping this hand with a pot of 2075 is large mistake. But whatever...

    When you flop top set with 50 BB effective I'm looking to get all the money in by the river. So I like your flop bet. Villains check raise could be anything. It doesn't mean you are behind. What it means to me is that if I raise villain's check raise I will have no fold equity because there is less then a pot size bet behind. I'm committed to taking my hand all the way and I can get all the chips in by the river. Calling gives villain an opportunity to make a mistake by folding when a scare card comes.

    The board is just as scary for him as it is for you. He may make a mistake by folding at some point. I would never fold. If he has a better hand then I do now and I don't improve then it's a cooler. Oh well.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    CAVEAT: I have VERY limited tourney experience.

    Question: @Jules, were you prepared to re-buy if you busted? And am I correct that you get 20,000 chips? If those are the case, then I would shove on the flop and hope to get it in. You're ahead of most hands and have outs when you're behind. Worst case, you re-buy and you're only "out" around 7,500 chips (your starting size less the limp call and the flop raise) relative to a fold. But, if you win, then you'd be at more than 2.5 the buy-in stack.

    If that's all correct, then this is an easy shove for me. If that's wrong, then I'm ready to learn as a tourney newbie!
  • JulesJules Red Chipper Posts: 441 ✭✭✭
    Yes shouldn't have limped. My bad... :(

    @moishetreats It was a $150 bi. Normally I would re buy this tourney. I have many times in the past, but I had already decided if I didn't make it through on one bullet I wasn't rebuying. Went on to play cash instead. It is such a donkament until the 20 min levels and rebuys are over. I was willing to take the gamble (obvi) whether or not I was rebuying.

    As @david w said the check raise could have meant anything. I would have had a lovely stack if it had swayed in my favor. I do believe my biggest mistake was limping along pre. When stacks are still so deep I should have raised pre and prob wouldn't have been in that situation.

    Live and learn! AGAIN! :)

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