Too aggressive?

jaxbanker2202jaxbanker2202 Red Chipper Posts: 19 ✭✭
Zone poker on Ignition. $.10/$.25 - 6 max. Effective stacks 40 BBs.

UTG raises to $.75 and V calls. H calls in SB w :7d:6d . Pot is $2.50.

Flop is :Th:Ts:4d . Expected that this flop missed everyone and so I lead out for $2.00 and get called by V. Pot is $6.50. V remaining stack is about $8.00.

Turn is :Th:Ts:4d:7c I make second pair, no kicker. Check, check and at this point I am giving up.

River is: :Th:Ts:4d:7c:Kh I decide to take a final stab - now w third pair, and bet $4.00 thinking V is not committed to the hand or would have bet the turn. V shoves $8 +/-.

The way the hand played out is not interesting. My question is whether I played this hand too aggressively. Now think the river bet was a mistake, but just hate to leave money out there. Maybe should have tried to check down or make a smaller blocker bet.

Thanks for the guidance.

Comments

  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 4,200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is no room for this call preflop and your hand history demonstrates this emphatically.
  • jaxbanker2202jaxbanker2202 Red Chipper Posts: 19 ✭✭
    Are you saying that because it is difficult to play a drawing hand OOP, or because of the objective strength of the hand? My thought was that UTG had a strong range, and I would have implied odds if I hit the flop in some fashion.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 4,200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If i give you the answer, that's somewhat helpful.

    But if you piece this one together by rereading critically what you yourself wrote in both posts, you'll figure out this and a thousand spots at once.
  • jaxbanker2202jaxbanker2202 Red Chipper Posts: 19 ✭✭
    Alright thanks. I will give it a try.
  • jaxbanker2202jaxbanker2202 Red Chipper Posts: 19 ✭✭
    I shouldn't be playing a drawing hand w 40BB effective stacks?
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 4,200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mostly not, but that's just a generalization.

    Why, is the question. What is that points to a reasonable decision here, and what happened over the course of your hand that made your spot difficult?

    This is the crux of the matter - here and everywhere.
  • Adam WheelerAdam Wheeler Red Chipper Posts: 2,657 ✭✭✭✭
    First i would ask myself what am i representing given pre-flop action. What am i calling in the worst possible position on a poker table in this spot.

    If i flopped big do i really lead into 2 players canceling the very exact effect that i wanted when i flat called in the worst possible position on a poker table.

    When you bet that flop, you put yourself in a really tough spot because now given that turn, if you got what you represent you have to bet again. Ask yourself again what are you representing.

    You checked the Turn saying "I'm giving up'' but you decided to "take a last stab'' ???

    Everything in this hand seems so clunky, no offense, but you got to make a believable story when you decide to embark on that road.

    On the river you bet because ''but just hate to leave money out there'' but honestly given the action and run out what do you think your making fold that beat you river ?
  • Adam WheelerAdam Wheeler Red Chipper Posts: 2,657 ✭✭✭✭
    Also i would add that when you call those kind of holdings hoping for what you initially hoped for, you are expecting a very different flop than this one. Because you want to get paid so you want a flop that surely hit V range and you want to have option on Turn when you are bluffing. I think this flop is far from what you need.

  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 4,200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm guessing your women tell you that you make everything more complicated than it is, Adam.
  • Adam WheelerAdam Wheeler Red Chipper Posts: 2,657 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2016
    Well, being with a women is already complicated it's like inception for me.
  • jaxbanker2202jaxbanker2202 Red Chipper Posts: 19 ✭✭
    What happened over the course of the hand is that I called for implied odds against one opponent, but ended up playing against another opponent. Am I headed in the right direction?

    Appreciate the comments Adam. I know I played this hand terribly - OOP w a drawing hand against what turned out to be a short stack.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 4,200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2016
    Every hand has implied odds, for better or worse.

    What can you win here? How often will you flop a quality draw? How do these two concepts relate? Will there be room to win without making the draw? How does position work with this and what ties all of this up together?
  • jaxbanker2202jaxbanker2202 Red Chipper Posts: 19 ✭✭
    I can win 40BB's (not impressive). I will flop a flush draw about 10% of the time and add a few more % for a possible straight draw. Say combined is 15% (not sure about this math) to flop either draw. I will make a FD about 35% and SD about 30% So averaging, I would say I actually make a hand about 33% x 15% or say 5% of the time - so 19:1 against. These two concepts relate by stating a risk and return relationship. I am not getting paid enough to play the hand - even if I make the hand I want. Overall not a good situation.

    Occasionally, I can bet an opponent off a better hand, but as Adam said, the flop was not ideal. Position works against me b/c I am OOP. It is difficult to control the size of the pot OOP. Even if I make my hand, I may not win my opponent's stack. What ties all of this together is risk and return. My return (40BBs at most) was not worth the risk of playing this hand given the odds of making my hand.

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file