Hand 9: XX on J85

NinjahNinjah Red Chipper Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭✭
Very small sample size, but I am OOP facing two loose-passive players (OOP against one of them) so I expect a multiway pot here quite often. I would limp in with my smaller pocket pairs and smaller suited connectors since I don’t see much value in raising them. My raising range is this spot is primarily made up of Broadway cards and medium to large pocket pairs. I’m opening 180 combos at 13.6%. AA-77,AKo-ATo,KQo-KJo,QJo,AKs-ATs,KQs-KTs,QJs-Q9s,JTs-J9s

Workbook Questions: Raise ATs, Raise KJo, limp 76s.

Flop: :Jc:8d:5d
Down to 160 combos after the flop. Since these players will call a high frequency of the time, they will have a lot of weak hands in their range. I expect them to call a flop bet with middle pairs, bottom pair, gutshots, flush draws, and occasionally overs. Therefore, I will betting a high frequency here with a heavy value range.

My betting range: AA-88,AKo-AJo,KJo,QJo,AKs-AJs,KJs,QJs,JTs-J9s,AdTd,KdQd,KdTd,QdTd,Qd9d 115 combos 71.9% frequency

Workbook Questions: Bet JT, KQdd and AK as a bluff.

Turn: :2s

On a brick turn against this type of player, I don’t really have much of a check-raising range. I don’t anticipate a loose-passive opponent betting the majority of their range and with their range being so weak, I don’t want to give them a free card. Betting 73 of 115 combos at a 63.5% frequency.

Workbook Questions: Betting AA, JJ, AQdd

River: :4h

On the river, I would check-call all of my value hands to give Villain a chance to bluff the river with his missed draws and weak pairs. I’m calling his shove with sets, overpairs, and all Jx pairs. Calling with 66 out of 73 combos for a 90.4% frequency.

Workbook Questions: Taking this line with AA and Jx, folding TT.

Comments

  • NinjahNinjah Red Chipper Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭✭
    I have already learned a lot about hand reading in the first section and I wanted to share some of my thoughts on each hand in the first section of the workbook. Feel free to add your own info or ask questions! I broke this into a hand by hand post because I don’t want to discourage people from reading a VERY long post if I were to attach it all at once.

    Hand 9: In my work on this hand, I ended up calling his shove on the river with top pair or better. I would really like to get opinions on this hand from other players though. I’ve always thought that a loose-passive (calling station) is only going to shove with the nuts. Is he capable of bluffing in a spot like this? I feel good about everything in the hand up until his final action on the river.
  • WendaWenda Red Chipper Posts: 1 ✭✭
    I don't think I have a check-call range on the river,since this is a loose-passive player,when passive player get agressive,their range is usually strong,anything that is strong enough to call a shove,I would bet myself for value.
  • Brendan RBrendan R Red Chipper Posts: 101 ✭✭
    edited November 2017
    Ninjah wrote: »
    Hand 9: In my work on this hand, I ended up calling his shove on the river with top pair or better. I would really like to get opinions on this hand from other players though. I’ve always thought that a loose-passive (calling station) is only going to shove with the nuts. Is he capable of bluffing in a spot like this? I feel good about everything in the hand up until his final action on the river.

    I think in general it's true that fish only shove with the nuts but I'm not sure this is true when the SPR gets low. They tend to get comitted to the hand. His shove here is only $28.5 into a pot of $46. It's about a 2/3 pot bet.

    For some reason I included suited Aces in my preflop raising range. A lot of them should've been checks so my preflop range ended up being wider than yours but it shouldn't have been. Not sure what I was thinking. Raising range here needs to be linear because we won't have much FE against loose passive fish even with a 6x raise. I don't disagree with the sizing though. It seems reasonable. If we were playing in a game of mostly fish we would need to start trying bigger open raise sizes if we continued to see many multi-way pots.

    On the flop I'm continuing with my value hands as well as FD's and OESD's in order to build the pot for value.

    The question about the Turn check-raise is an interesting one. I'm not sure the CR looks as scary to a fish as it does to a Reg. Should we be CRing fish much at all? Any opinions on this?

    Finally OTR I'm calling with TP+ including those with a questionable kicker.

  • obliviusoblivius San FranciscoRed Chipper Posts: 108 ✭✭
    Very tricky riv spot. The combos of V's nuts are few but his jam suggests he has it. At least it's only 2/3 pot bet so it's probably a call with TP+. One upside is that we see which cards he does have. There's value in knowing that for sure. We've all seen these guys flip over AA-QQ etc. or even 22 and J8s or not suited. As aweful that is it's noteworthy.....
  • Danny MDanny M Red Chipper Posts: 353 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    What bluffs do you bet or jam on the river? Do you need any?
  • Ajay SAjay S Red Chipper Posts: 20 ✭✭
    edited January 2018
    I don't believe there can exist a universal algorithm for playing certain type of hands certain way in certain spots, of course against a fish you would like to include more hands in your value range and against good players you should consider position to be more important than the hand you are holding in some spots, I generally against relatively unknown opponents like to check or check back rivers with less than 50% of my calling range and that may include AA on a KK789 type of flop, there is no certain way to know betting AA is going be +ve Ev play against every opponent in every scenario, that is determined by bet structure, board texture and order, so I think it comes down to you in the end, ask yourself, infact try to put yourself in the shoes of your opponent and try to get a story that makes sense and then play accordingly.

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