Do you ever pass up slightly +EV situations

moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭✭
edited January 2017 in General Concepts
Good afternoon, everyone,

Do you ever pass up slightly +EV situations? Two times when I consider it is when I have built a big stack and don't want to put it all in for just a slightly +EV. The other time is when I have a table image that I want to maintain and jamming it even though its a slight +EV would kill that image.

Thoughts? Or, deep down, is this an issue of bankroll (especially in the first case -- i.e., always take the +EV play...)?
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Comments

  • SplitSuitSplitSuit RCP Coach Posts: 3,886 -
    This is a key difference between cash and MTTs. In cash games I take +EV spots because they are simply +EV. In MTTs you also need to consider one-life-to-live and other MTT-specific spots where a small +EV gamble isn't worthwhile given the context of payouts, structure, etc.
    My latest poker course brings the popular book 'Poker's 1%' to life- The One Percent
  • sparkyAAsparkyAA Red Chipper Posts: 160 ✭✭
    In a cash game vacuum you shouldn't. But life isn't lived in a vacuum and table dynamics are important to consider. Example: 2/5 500 max buy in late at night, bunch of drunk players, effective stacks across the table 1000+. you have 88 and a guy moves all in preflop and shows AKss. Yes you have a slightly EV call here. In a vacuum, it's a call. But keeping your big stack for better scenarios is probably more +EV by the end of the night
  • dirty moosedirty moose Red Chipper Posts: 480 ✭✭✭
    sparkyAA wrote: »
    In a cash game vacuum you shouldn't. But life isn't lived in a vacuum and table dynamics are important to consider. Example: 2/5 500 max buy in late at night, bunch of drunk players, effective stacks across the table 1000+. you have 88 and a guy moves all in preflop and shows AKss. Yes you have a slightly EV call here. In a vacuum, it's a call. But keeping your big stack for better scenarios is probably more +EV by the end of the night

    If you lose the hand, you can just reload in a cash game
  • dirty moosedirty moose Red Chipper Posts: 480 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Heres another way to look at it; If you could play craps and have the pass line house edge in your favor, wouldn't you bet it over and over. You can't lose in the long run.

    I understand everyone's risk tolerance is different tho. The key is to not let that effect your decisions.
  • YoshYosh Red Chipper Posts: 570 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    There is a good thread somewhere on this sight where a few members debate whether logic can prevail as you move up in stakes and face opponents that can out gamble you. It was one of the reasons I joined this forum. My opinion is that if you view your stack as anything but a tool to deploy your strategy, you are already beat. Unfortunately the lowest you can play live is 1/2 and $200 is certainly a very real, very large sum of money for most people - myself included.

    Found it.
    http://forum.redchippoker.com/discussion/comment/21355/

    Took about a day to read. :)
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks to everyone for their comments, and to @kagey and @Yosh for those links. Yup, a day to read, @Yosh, but that doesn't mean that I understood it :).

    From all the comments and those two other threads, it's clear to me that, with one rare exception, if it's +EV, then you take it.

    The rare exception came from the thread that @kagey posted: if you're deep-stacked AND there are other deep stacks AND those deep stacks are fish AND there is a max buy-in far lower than the effective size of the deep stacks, then it might be worth a pass on the small +EV.

    Otherwise, yup, get your money in good. Thanks again, everyone!
  • volcanovolcano Red Chipper Posts: 346 ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    theres lot of money to be saved by folding sometimes. poker is a weird game.
  • chimerachimera Red Chipper Posts: 92 ✭✭
    In an MTT something you have to consider is how much more useful are the chips you could gain against the one you could lose.
    Consider the following two choices:
    Option 1 a 100% chance of $1m
    Option 2 a 50% chance of $2.2m
    Now option 2 is has and EV of $1.1 compared to option 1's $1m. 2 is clearly the most profitable option by I for one would always choose option 1. The extra $100k is simply not as valuable to me as the lose of the $1m would be.
    MTT can be looked at in a similar vein, do you really won't to risk you tournament life for say 2bb when you have 40bb ?
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,172 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In theory (in life), we do pass up +EV situations - as proven by our purchase of insurance. Insurance is a +EV game for the insurance companies, and so by definition a -EV game for us. And yet we buy it. (You could argue that it's required by law in many cases, but still most people agree it's a good decision in many cases too.) So really this comes down to a bankroll issue, except for the exception moishe referenced (which comes down to a max buyin issue - some places have a rebuy rule that allows you to buy back in to match the biggest stack at the table - in which case this issue goes away.)
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭✭
    Another thought I just had:

    Players who play infrequently could/should pass up these slightly positive EV situations because variance is more difficult to withstand mentally if not to overcome entirely.

    Thoughts?
  • SplitSuitSplitSuit RCP Coach Posts: 3,886 -
    Another thought I just had:

    Players who play infrequently could/should pass up these slightly positive EV situations because variance is more difficult to withstand mentally if not to overcome entirely.

    Thoughts?

    I would say the opposite would be more correct. If you play daily and thus you NEED your mental strong, passing up on possibly life-tilting EV situations could be "fine". If you play infrequently, you have tons of time between sessions to reset back to neutral.
    My latest poker course brings the popular book 'Poker's 1%' to life- The One Percent
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭✭
    SplitSuit wrote: »
    Another thought I just had:

    Players who play infrequently could/should pass up these slightly positive EV situations because variance is more difficult to withstand mentally if not to overcome entirely.

    Thoughts?

    I would say the opposite would be more correct. If you play daily and thus you NEED your mental strong, passing up on possibly life-tilting EV situations could be "fine". If you play infrequently, you have tons of time between sessions to reset back to neutral.

    Very interesting point about mentality. I was focused on bankroll (running bad for a couple of sessions doesn't impact much if you play daily but does if you play infrequently). I hadn't thought about the mental side, though. Thank you!!
  • volcanovolcano Red Chipper Posts: 346 ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    running bad a couple sessions always hurts- thats like 400 bb minimum. i do it too often

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