99 EP 8 handed

SixthStreet

$.25/.50 home game
limp
hero bet $4.25/fold/fold/ CO calls/BTN fold/ SB fold/BB call/Limped calls (pot $17.00)
flop 2c5c10h
check/check/ hero shove $17/CO call rest fold.
turn 7d river Qc
hero 9s9h
Villian 67c

Pre flop was Villan call good?
post flop as price right for call?
i am tightest player at game my range in that spot with knowing what i will get for calls 88+,AQs+, KQs, AK
flopzilla says 9h9s (62%)vs 67c(38%)on that flop.

i looking t this from math stand point.

CubanB

Preflop it's tough to say. Your effective stack's only around 40 BB's so implied odds vs you alone aren't great and he has kind of a speculative hand. But you do mention that you're the tightest person at the table so perhaps he has a read that should it get checked to him on the flop, he'll be able to easily take the pot away from you with a bet. There are also the BB/Limpers -- perhaps they are bad players with big stacks and he thinks he can use position against them to win a big pot because he does have implied odds against those opponents.

The flop call looks correct from a mathematical standpoint; he's getting 2:1 on the call so he'd be correct to call with anything with equity >= to 33%, and he has more than that per the numbers you've provided.

nicnameks

It's mostly a bad call. Maybe he knew some other OOP fish would call with deep stacks ie. BB and limper. But it's a 8.5 pfr from a dude with what 40 or so BBs? Seems like a losing prop long term. nomsayin?

Sorry you got beat OP.

nicnameks

OTF, if he's come this far he's counting those flush outs as clean. So he should call.

moishetreats

In a $.25/.50 home game, you can often throw math out the window. People will often play just to play and to have some fun and not bring their "A" poker game. With that in mind, this play looks fine to me.

Also, V might just not know the math, so expecting him to act according to it is a misread of your opponent on your part.

jeffnc

Preflop call by villain is horrendous, assuming he's trying to make a hand. Even if he's planning on stealing later, it's still a bad plan when you're that shortstacked. On the flop, his call is pretty standard, I don't think many people would fold it. Having the would have helped you slightly, and having 88 would be slightly better than 99 here because it helps block backdoor straights.

Travis

Personally I dont like you shove on the flop in a multiway pot. SPR is about 4.2. In a multiway that isnt great even for top pair and there was an over card to your pair. You could have checked the flop and if checked then shove turn if no club. As in this case you would have cut the draws odds. Or you could Cbet 1/2-2/3 pot and evaluate

jeffnc

Betting $11 into a $17 pot leaving $6 behind with which to "reevaluate" isn't really an option, IMO.

Travis

jeffnc wrote: »

Betting $11 into a $17 pot leaving $6 behind with which to "reevaluate" isn't really an option, IMO.

True but on that flop even a $5 bet would likely get folds from all but draws and 10x,,, they arent folding to a pot sized bet on the flop anyway
So check flop if no action then shove turn if not a club. Flop shove here is essentially a bluff

SixthStreet

moishetreats wrote: »

In a $.25/.50 home game, you can often throw math out the window. People will often play just to play and to have some fun and not bring their "A" poker game. With that in mind, this play looks fine to me.

Also, V might just not know the math, so expecting him to act according to it is a misread of your opponent on your part.

This is what me and my buddy have talked about in this game. They aren't using the math .She actually said she only played that hand because she has been having a lot of luck lately with 67s We all play short stacked typical but in is $20 couple others buy for $40, but those 2 are huge passive calling stations and have been good for my bankroll. When I shoved on flop was 2 part, checks in front of me and no A or K on flop. I didn't want to give V a chance to bluff shove if I checked.

SixthStreet

moishetreats wrote: »

Also, V might just not know the math, so expecting him to act according to it is a misread of your opponent on your part.

As for misread opponent she has made moves and table talk like she has some what of a clue, but with that this game has progressed in table talk and I have taking specific notes on players. This is a fun game they have no clue how much info they are giving away, also how much info of what they think of what and how I play. When I have folded or bought pots how wrong they are.

jeffnc

SixthStreet wrote: »

I didn't want to give V a chance to bluff shove if I checked.

Would you have called if she did? (Let's assume for sake of argument you don't know for sure she's bluffing :) ) If so, why? And if so, why would you not want her to bluff here?

I don't necessarily know all the answers, I'm just giving us something to think about.

If she will always call with her flush draw if you push, and she will always push with her flush draw if you check, and you will always call because you think she's bluffing, then there is no difference between these two scenarios. The differences, if any, lie in other scenarios.

So, what are they?

SixthStreet

jeffnc wrote: »

SixthStreet wrote: »

I didn't want to give V a chance to bluff shove if I checked.

Would you have called if she did? (Let's assume for sake of argument you don't know for sure she's bluffing :) ) If so, why? And if so, why would you not want her to bluff here?

I don't necessarily know all the answers, I'm just giving us something to think about.

If she will always call with her flush draw if you push, and she will always push with her flush draw if you check, and you will always call because you think she's bluffing, then there is no difference between these two scenarios. The differences, if any, lie in other scenarios.

So, what are they?

I like the questions. Those are the things that me and my friend discuss. One answer is in my notes on her no shove on flush draw, but would shove with the ace on flop if she had ace to drive out flush draws. I call small bet from her and shove non club on turn that is only A on flop. Now with another guy who loves to bet when i delay cbet. with A on flop i check shove to his bet, because he bets at about 80%+ rate when i am preflop raiser and check on scary flop.
thanks Jeffnc this what i looking for different line of thought.