Bet sizing for getting it in

BadFrog1BadFrog1 Red Chipper Posts: 136 ✭✭
edited December 2016 in General Concepts
Say we're playing 1-2 with effective stacks at a full buyin of 300. We're going for maximum pressure by using pain threshold preflop and threatening stacks postflop. Say there's three limpers, we raise to 25 and get one call. There's ~55 in the pot after rake on the flop, and effective stack is 275 (SPR is 5).

Strategy 1 (pot flop, overbet shove turn): We pot flop, we'll have 165 in the pot on the turn and 220 in stacks. That would mean a turn shove is a fairly sizable overbet (1.3x pot), but anything less than a shove would leave tiny stacks on the river.

Strategy 2 (1/2 pot flop, 1/2 pot turn, pot shove river): We bet 1/2 pot on the flop, we'll have 110 in the pot on the turn with 250 stacks. Half pot again would give us 220 on the river with 195 stacks, for a pretty nice shove. But in this case, we're giving really nice odds to draws on the flop and turn.

Are these basically the two options for getting it in? Should we be considering something else like 3/4 pot or 1/3 on the flop? Are there different textures that are preferable for each of these strategies? Should we be trying to manipulate the pot preflop so that we have a better SPR going into the flop?

Comments

  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,240 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would recommend reading Professional No Limit Holdem to cover all this stuff.
  • BadFrog1BadFrog1 Red Chipper Posts: 136 ✭✭
    jeffnc wrote: »
    I would recommend reading Professional No Limit Holdem to cover all this stuff.

    That's Ed Miller, right? Isn't he more a fan of the small preflop raise and lots of flexibility postflop style? I'm trying to understand more about the Berkey/Soto maximum pain / always put stacks in play style.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,240 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The book isn't really about a style of playing, it's about SPR math. I don't know if they invented. It's Miller/Flynn/Mehta. They cover all the scenarios you're asking about. I don't know if they actually invented SPR, but they're the first ones that wrote a strategy relative to it.
  • TravisTravis Red Chipper Posts: 430 ✭✭✭
    One of the ways i look at it is purely based on stack size,.,, 1/6 of relative stack or 1/3 pot whichever is greatest on the flop. .. 1/3 of relative stack on turn.. makes river shove slightly less than pot.
    I do this when I have to extract and manipulate in order to get it all in, and cant get it in faster
  • EazzyEazzy Red Chipper Posts: 887 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    The way I look at pot geometry and this comes from (my understanding) of
    No limit poker Theory and Practice.....Miller and Slansky

    If I want to get it in by the river....I looke at how much is behind...in your example its 275.....I expect to get about 1/2 in on the river.....so thats 140 ishs....

    so I want to get 140 on the flop and turn...pots 55 ...I could bet 40 ....100 and shove the river.l....I could bet.....50, 90...shove river for 140....(this will always give a reasonable sized river bet V.S. the pot)...this always give me less then a 1/2 pot bet by the river...

    I could do 30,....60....and then its easy to relize I need anther 50 for the river or now 190...(a bigger river bet v.s the pot...this produce a more pot ish river bet....

    But by calcdulating 50% on the river (as a starting point) I can plan bet sizing....

    for me personally I generally like a smaller ball approach.....so that if I'm raised on the flop or turn, I'm not commited against passive opponents and loose less with my bluffs.....but have more behind on the river for my bluffs...and more flexibility...i.e. depending on the river card, I can bet 1/3 pot to get called by a wider range or bet pot+ to put maximum pressure on.

  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭✭
    I think that there are lots of ways to get it in and that there are lots of systems and recommendations for how to do it. For me, though, it is almost entirely table-dependent, V-dependent, board-dependent, and my image-dependent.

    Depending on the table flow, V, board, and my image, I then would select from the options listed above.

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