25NL with Speculative Hand on the Button - (2) Examples of a Similar Situation

BoilerAceBoilerAce Red Chipper Posts: 388 ✭✭
edited January 2017 in Online Poker Hands
I have a couple of examples of being on the button with a speculative hand in position that flops decent but I get bullied off of the hand by the small blind. I'm tired of losing money in these situations. Is the villain protecting his blind? Barrelling at me? Any input is appreciated.

Example #1:
GAME #3409152097: Texas Hold'em NL $0.10/$0.25 2017-01-08 21:03:52/GMT
Table Longhorns
Seat 1: P1_757492SI ($7.57 in chips)
Seat 2: P2_862128XC ($7.83 in chips)
Seat 3: P3_355180KD ($24.83 in chips)
Seat 4: P4_351018PG ($34.24 in chips)
Seat 5: P5_999052IU ($20.63 in chips)
Seat 6: P6_745898AD ($19.42 in chips)
Seat 7: P7_187036HD ($19.45 in chips)
Seat 8: Hero ($28.99 in chips) DEALER
Seat 9: P9_562995UD ($18.77 in chips)
P9_562995UD: Post SB $0.10
P1_757492SI: Post BB $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [ :Qd :9d ]
P2_862128XC: Raise (NF) $0.50
P3_355180KD: Fold
P4_351018PG: Fold
P5_999052IU: Fold
P6_745898AD: Fold
P7_187036HD: Fold
Hero: Call $0.50
P9_562995UD: Call $0.40
P1_757492SI: Call $0.25
*** FLOP *** [ :9s :3h :3d ]
P9_562995UD: Bet $0.75
P1_757492SI: Fold
P2_862128XC: Fold
Hero: Call $0.75
*** TURN *** [ :Kh ]
P9_562995UD: Bet $2.25
Hero: Fold
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $5.58 Rake $0.17
P9_562995UD: wins $5.58
Example #2
GAME #3409128895: Texas Hold'em NL $0.10/$0.25 2017-01-08 20:01:23/GMT
Table Longhorns
Seat 1: P1_295637ON ($37.51 in chips)
Seat 2: P2_862128XC ($17.12 in chips)
Seat 3: P3_202200FB ($53.39 in chips)
Seat 4: P4_123859VE ($25.00 in chips)
Seat 5: P5_999052IU ($20.37 in chips)
Seat 6: P6_745898AD ($24.94 in chips)
Seat 7: P7_904070TI ($27.23 in chips)
Seat 8: Hero ($23.90 in chips) DEALER
Seat 9: P9_334263IU ($18.75 in chips)
P9_334263IU: Post SB $0.10
P1_295637ON: Post BB $0.25
P4_123859VE: Post BB $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [ :8h :6c ]
P2_862128XC: Fold
P3_202200FB: Fold
P4_123859VE: Check
P5_999052IU: Fold
P6_745898AD: Fold
P7_904070TI: Fold
Hero: Call $0.25
P9_334263IU: Call $0.15
P1_295637ON: Check
*** FLOP *** [ :5d :7c :6s ]
P9_334263IU: Bet $0.50
P1_295637ON: Fold
P4_123859VE: Call $0.50
Hero: Call $0.50
*** TURN *** [ :5c ]
P9_334263IU: Bet $1.25
P4_123859VE: Fold
Hero: Call $1.25
*** RIVER *** [ :Jc ]
P9_334263IU: Bet $3.75
Hero: Fold
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $8.50 Rake $0.25
P9_334263IU: wins $8.50

Comments

  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,703 ✭✭✭✭
    My thought is that you need a better reason to play these hands than "I have position". Otherwise, you could justify playing any two cards with that mindset. In addition, I tend to only call with speculative hands if pot odds are favorable: you want to get paid off if you hit. That means either having a big pot already and/or having one or players stay in the hand. That is not the case in either situation: there isn't a big pot for you to win, and, with only one or two callers, there's a good chance that neither would have enough to pay off.

    In short, I don't mind playing the first hand in position (actually, I love playing Q9), but I'm not calling a 5x raise when everyone else has folded. And the second hand is nothing short of junk. If you get TONS of callers, then maybe I'd toss in the blind once in a while, but I hate doing so: you'd be screwed if either the SB or BB raises.

    As an aside, in that second hand, once you're in at the flop, you've got to play to win: raise the flop bet.
  • SplitSuitSplitSuit RCP Coach Posts: 3,907 -
    Very different hands. Why are you folding in the Q9 hand?
    My latest poker course brings the popular book 'Poker's 1%' to life- The One Percent
  • BoilerAceBoilerAce Red Chipper Posts: 388 ✭✭
    First, I apologize for grouping them together. I see them as a similar situation and tried to make it less confusing to have them in two different threads. My bad.

    Hand #1
    SplitSuit wrote: »
    Very different hands. Why are you folding in the Q9 hand?
    1. I don't like the size of the turn bet $2.25 into $3.50. Bet sizing that seems to be more than what I consider normal makes me on edge. moishetreats, it seems like you see this too. This bet is just a bit much but looking back, maybe not...but now combine that #2.
    2. The K came out. I see a K definitely being in his range here...AK, QK, etc. His bet jumped considerably once the K hit...he could have spiked the K or he could be using it as a bluff that he now has a pair of K.
    I guess when the hand was going on, it didn't feel right for those reasons...


  • BoilerAceBoilerAce Red Chipper Posts: 388 ✭✭
    edited January 2017
    My thought is that you need a better reason to play these hands than "I have position". Otherwise, you could justify playing any two cards with that mindset. In addition, I tend to only call with speculative hands if pot odds are favorable: you want to get paid off if you hit. That means either having a big pot already and/or having one or players stay in the hand. That is not the case in either situation: there isn't a big pot for you to win, and, with only one or two callers, there's a good chance that neither would have enough to pay off.

    And the second hand is nothing short of junk. If you get TONS of callers, then maybe I'd toss in the blind once in a while, but I hate doing so: you'd be screwed if either the SB or BB raises.

    As an aside, in that second hand, once you're in at the flop, you've got to play to win: raise the flop bet.

    Hand #2
    Noted all around. I read so munch about how I need to win more from the button, etc. My stats are weak from the button. I tend to force things that aren't there and that means playing crappy cards in situations. In my defense, it was 4 handed to the flop so there was a bit of value there being in position. Or maybe I just need to dump this hand and not get involved.

  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,703 ✭✭✭✭
    BoilerAce wrote: »
    My thought is that you need a better reason to play these hands than "I have position". Otherwise, you could justify playing any two cards with that mindset. In addition, I tend to only call with speculative hands if pot odds are favorable: you want to get paid off if you hit. That means either having a big pot already and/or having one or players stay in the hand. That is not the case in either situation: there isn't a big pot for you to win, and, with only one or two callers, there's a good chance that neither would have enough to pay off.

    And the second hand is nothing short of junk. If you get TONS of callers, then maybe I'd toss in the blind once in a while, but I hate doing so: you'd be screwed if either the SB or BB raises.

    As an aside, in that second hand, once you're in at the flop, you've got to play to win: raise the flop bet.

    Hand #2
    Noted all around. I read so munch about how I need to win more from the button, etc. My stats are weak from the button. I tend to force things that aren't there and that means playing crappy cards in situations. In my defense, it was 4 handed to the flop so there was a bit of value there being in position. Or maybe I just need to dump this hand and not get involved.

    I added the necessary emphasis, IMO. I think that there will be much better spots to get involved on the button.

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