Am I being a LAG here or a fish?

XkavanXkavan Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
Just one of those hands I am ashamed of showing my coach because I played negative EV but could this have been a good read if villain didn't hit his straight or it's too risky?

https://www.boomplayer.com/22238957_9B7A12FFA6

P.S. New to the site. Hi everyone.

Comments

  • kageykagey Red Chipper, KINGOFTAGS Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭✭
    welcome to the forums, fish! (JK!)

    if CO is loose - I don't mind your pre-flop call and flop call.
    On the turn, I'd just shove it in if you're never folding.
    SB is actually the fish here.
    On the turn, he should fold.

    Your river raise is silly.
    SB is never folding for more.
    And you should only be called by a better hand.
    The river is just a call.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 819 ✭✭✭
    First of all, welcome!

    Second, I'm pausing the hand as my thoughts come out, so I'm responding without knowing the outcome.

    Pre-flop: Terrible call. This hand isn't strong enough to go up against one raiser. Just fold this one... unless the cut-off raises a ton, in which case you can comfortably 3-bet him. A flat-call, though, makes you hope that you hit your hand and doesn't allow you to out-play the CO the rest of the way.

    Post-flop: You realize that, with his cbet and stack size, he's VERY likely to double- and triple- barrel, meaning that you'll have to play this hand for his stack all the way to the river. I don't think that your hand is strong enough vs. his range to risk that much. I'd rather cut my losses... or raise :). Assuming that you are prepared to call, say, a $1,300 bet on the turn, then I'd likely raise here to ~$1,500. If he folds, then great! If he calls, then perhaps you're ahead. And, if he shoves, then you can fold, saving yourself money on later streets.

    Post-turn: I actually like the bet here. The second 10 makes his hand of, say, AQ or AJ chop with you. But, given the stacks, if you're betting what you did, then you're almost definitely calling the all-in river bet. So, I'd bet enough to put both players all-in. That's where you'd get your fold equity.

    As it were, you got raised all-in, so you might as well have led out with the bet in case it was big enough to fold Vs out.

    Post-river: Yeah, I'm nit-picking, but re-raising even for the last couple of hundred dollars makes no sense. You're undoubtedly behind. For the record, I would have called his all-in bet given the pot, but there is NO way that I'd put in one extra cent voluntarily.

    Post-hand: (1) I still would have folded or raised pre-flop. If you had folded, you'd had saved your self a ton of money. If you had raised, it would have been hard for the SB to call you. And the CO might have folded. You actually had CO beat the whole way... and you have turned a chopped pot. Of course, aggression at any time might have folded out one or both of the players.

    In sum, I don't like flatting this hand. I'm either putting the pressure on the other player(s) or not getting involved in the first place.
  • tripletiretripletire Red Chipper Posts: 243 ✭✭✭
    I must disagree with both Kagey and Moishe on the specific point of the river raise. It's a clear reraise spot to get the SB all in as this is a bounty tournament. The value of knocking him out for another 2.2 BBs is off the charts.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 819 ✭✭✭
    tripletire wrote: »
    I must disagree with both Kagey and Moishe on the specific point of the river raise. It's a clear reraise spot to get the SB all in as this is a bounty tournament. The value of knocking him out for another 2.2 BBs is off the charts.

    Good point. I missed that it was a bounty tournament.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 2,780 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That preflop flat is so brutal I would advise telling your coach and going over some fundamentals. That's what he's for!
  • kageykagey Red Chipper, KINGOFTAGS Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭✭
    tripletire wrote: »
    I must disagree with both Kagey and Moishe on the specific point of the river raise. It's a clear reraise spot to get the SB all in as this is a bounty tournament. The value of knocking him out for another 2.2 BBs is off the charts.
    the "value of knocking him out" was presented to Hero on the turn
    once Hero failed to do that - he has to play his hand for value on the river
    when SB bets - he can't fold - but we're either beat or tied
    raising is fruitless - even with a possible bounty available

  • tripletiretripletire Red Chipper Posts: 243 ✭✭✭
    kagey wrote: »
    tripletire wrote: »
    I must disagree with both Kagey and Moishe on the specific point of the river raise. It's a clear reraise spot to get the SB all in as this is a bounty tournament. The value of knocking him out for another 2.2 BBs is off the charts.
    the "value of knocking him out" was presented to Hero on the turn
    once Hero failed to do that - he has to play his hand for value on the river
    when SB bets - he can't fold - but we're either beat or tied
    raising is fruitless - even with a possible bounty available

    But it is still necessary to make him put in his last couple chips in the off chance that you are wrong and he has some worse value.
  • XkavanXkavan Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
    Thanks for all the tip guys.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Red Chipper Posts: 400 ✭✭
    Pre-flop is def 3b or fold. With that huge raise size I'd likely fold.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭✭
    tripletire wrote: »
    I must disagree with both Kagey and Moishe on the specific point of the river raise. It's a clear reraise spot to get the SB all in as this is a bounty tournament.

    And yet SB didn't shove.

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