Folded top pair because of what he said...Wrong

humpsterhumpster Red Chipper Posts: 35 ✭✭
250 buy in local tourney

Blinds 1200/2400. I have 40 bb. Big blind has 50 bb.

It's folded around to me in the small and I limp with kc3c. Big blind checks. I had put the big blind player down as a straight forward player.

Flop comes kd 5h 8s. I check big checks.

Turn is a blank and I lead out for 2650. Big blind raises to 7000 and then says if you had a king you would never have checked the flop.

I took his words as meaning strength. I took it as a weak hand statement which means a strongh hand. I then thought if he had a king I'm way behind and folded.
He then showed aq.

Question what was wrong with my thought process here and how bad was this fold.


  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2017
    I really don't understand why you checked the flop when you are on the top of your range ?
    And first of all, why not try to steal? You've a King as blocker and 2 suited cards.

    What do you mean with "I took it as a weak hand statement which means a strong hand." ?

    If he speaks as he plays, i.e. straightforward, I guess he meant he would beat any pair but not a pair of Kings. Implying a medium hands (middle pairs?) you would have beat.

    For the future, you've to note that he did not raise AQ preflop, not even trying to steal the SB in heads-up.
    Also, this slow-play of AQ doesn't fit the "straightforward" tag you put him in
  • humpsterhumpster Red Chipper Posts: 35 ✭✭
    Thanks for your comments

    Ironically I checked the flop for deception, for exactly the reason he said. so he would not put me on a king.

    As far as me putting him down as straight forward, that was a mistake. He had been at the table for just 2 rounds of play but in that time had not got out of line once.

    the weak hand statement is something I got from Zac Elwood. He's a poker author who specialises in verbal poker tells.
  • vandwellervandweller Red Chipper Posts: 23 ✭✭
    The reliability of a given player's seeming tell is an important factor. Since this is the first time you've encountered it from this player, you really don't have any idea what it means for him or how reliable it is.

    A seeming tell from an unknown player at best should be treated as a tiebreaker when the decision is close.

    Now he might be right in saying, "If you had a king you never would have checked the flop". But that same logic could equally apply to the top end of his range as well.

    Next time, just lead the flop and go from there. Here, the deck smashed you (relatively speaking) and he could have literally any two cards (except for whatever he would have raised preflop). You don't need to slowplay top-pair-no-kicker for deception out of position medium-stacked in a tournament, especially if you are going to fold if you do succeed in deceiving him.
  • JonasJonas Red Chipper Posts: 160 ✭✭
    Preflop: Raise and scoop up the antes. You're lucky he didn't raise your limp... and double lucky he showed!

    If he 3Bets, that's where you can find a fold if he's straightforward.

    When he flats your raise (because it looks like he would), you bet the flop. Not many people would continue with A high after your raise/bet. Especially now we know he's pretty nitty and afraid his AQ will get outflopped.

    As played, you checked for deception... he checks back. All he's done so far is check- that's weak. Or at least that he hasn't hit the board.

    Blank comes: So the story didn't change. He's still highly potentially whiffed. And you've missed too... but you didn't (which only you know).

    So now he sees your bet as a "stab" with air and since he has a pretty good 'bluff catcher', he wants to muscle you out. Which is much more than you wanted with your check. A call would be nice but a baby raise, sweet! I mean, what's he raising with here anyways?

  • volcanovolcano Red Chipper Posts: 346 ✭✭
    edited February 2017
    I think people get caught in situations because they dont bet/bluff enough. You should never be worried that they will fold if you bet. If you think they will fold then bet with a weaker range up to complete bluffs until they start fighting back.
  • MonadMonad Red Chipper Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2017
    If you typed him as straightforward, your fold made sense based on that read, despite the fishiness of his check-flop/raise-turn line & confusing table talk. After seeing this hand, you can reassess how you range him in the future. Don't beat yourself up over it -- use the information they have willingly gifted to you to exploit him/her in the future.
  • humpsterhumpster Red Chipper Posts: 35 ✭✭
    Thanks for the responses. I guess making tells on people when you haven't played with them for a long period and have not been able to correlate that info with previous hands was a mistake. The second big mistake was using what he said as a deciding factor in my decision to fold. I should have went through the hand and called his raise and took it to the river. Anyway I appreciate all your advise. Cheers

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