I don't know what to title this...

JulesJules Red Chipper Posts: 441 ✭✭✭
I played a 5k gt online last night . $5 bi 10k starting stack. 9 handed.

I'm posting this hand because I have really been working hard on my post flop play. Nothing mind blowing but thought maybe I might of missed some value or not? So I wanted to see if you all could give me feedback on this play. Also wanted to see what you all thought about the BB CR on the turn and what do you think he was trying to accomplish?

Blinds: 1200/2400/240

Hero BU 138301 :Ad:8s (57bbs)
V BB 92090 (38bbs)

Hero opens to 4800 and BB calls

Pot: 12720

Flop :6s:3s:8d

I c bet a little over 1/3 pot 4500 (OK to C bet this flop?)
BB hesitates and calls
Pot: 21720

Turn :9c

Didn't feel that really changed anything.

Feeling good about my 8 and I bet 1/2 pot 10860 (Good or nah?)

BB CR to 27485 (oops) (why is he CR?)

Pot is now 60065 so I figure I can call the 16625 and see what the river brings. If he goes bananas on the river I'm probably beat.

I call

River :Js

BB checks. Whaaa??

So should I check back? Make a little value bet? Felt the hand played out a little weird. I'll say what V had later.

Comments

  • GabeyJGabeyJ Red Chipper Posts: 436 ✭✭✭
    I think you can just check back river I like the call on the turn. It seems he is betting with more drawing hands then anything that really beats you. Even though the river takes away some
    Combos I thought he would have I don't think you can really bet for vaule hear that comfortably? He is going to be folding most worse 8s at that point so unless your trying to fold him out. I think a check can win you the pot enough if the time.
  • MonadMonad Red Chipper Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2017
    Pre & flop are fine. Bet sizing is good. Turn bet is thin/marginal without reads. It's a clear fold when you get raised. I usually check it back. River is a clear check -- 3rd pair is pretty much never worth 3-4 streets of value as you almost never get called by worse firing that many barrels -- you might as well be bluffing.
  • JulesJules Red Chipper Posts: 441 ✭✭✭
    @GabeyJ Likes my turn call and @Monad doesn't..... I felt like I needed to call the 16k on the turn to possibly win 60k and play poker from there. This is why I asked because I do get a little stubborn at times to fold.... Again I didn't feel like the 9 changed much...
  • MonadMonad Red Chipper Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭✭
    @Jules That 9 on the turn connects with all sorts of flop call hands. And while you're possibly getting thin value against combo draws & FDs, you're better off eering on side of caution readless as many times you just make worse pairs fold & get play from 9x & better.

    A golden rule of poker -- if CR readless OTT, especially in tournaments where players generally are weaker, just fold any pair hands.
  • JulesJules Red Chipper Posts: 441 ✭✭✭
    @Monad OK. Appreciate your thoughts. Hmmmmm I suppose you are right. Does connect...

    Just thought it strange for him to CR turn and not flop? Why is he now CR turn and if he's on a draw why not continue repping that when Js come on river. Perfect card for him. Yet he checks. Besides deciding if I played it bad or not. I'm trying to understand why he played the hand the way he did.

    Funny how if I would of checked back turn the hand could have possibly played differently. Maybe he would of sensed weakness and bet the river. Then I would have folded.

    Also do you all think many people float BU opens and try to rep something stronger? CR is a very powerful weapon in the blinds.
  • GabeyJGabeyJ Red Chipper Posts: 436 ✭✭✭
    I will agree that I check back this turn most of the time.
  • GabeyJGabeyJ Red Chipper Posts: 436 ✭✭✭
    I still think that as played I'm calling the turn raise
  • JulesJules Red Chipper Posts: 441 ✭✭✭
    @GabeyJ I gotcha! Thanks for the feedback

  • GabeyJGabeyJ Red Chipper Posts: 436 ✭✭✭
    @jules I am curious to know what he tabled?
  • MonadMonad Red Chipper Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭✭
    Jules wrote: »
    @Monad OK. Appreciate your thoughts. Hmmmmm I suppose you are right. Does connect...

    Just thought it strange for him to CR turn and not flop? Why is he now CR turn and if he's on a draw why not continue repping that when Js come on river. Perfect card for him. Yet he checks. Besides deciding if I played it bad or not. I'm trying to understand why he played the hand the way he did.

    Funny how if I would of checked back turn the hand could have possibly played differently. Maybe he would of sensed weakness and bet the river. Then I would have folded.

    Also do you all think many people float BU opens and try to rep something stronger? CR is a very powerful weapon in the blinds.

    No I don't think many people do that -- it's what makes bet/fold a strong play vs. the majority of unknowns & passives you face off against.
  • JulesJules Red Chipper Posts: 441 ✭✭✭
    GabeyJ wrote: »
    @jules I am curious to know what he tabled?

    What do you think he had? Range? :)

    Thanks for all your input @Monad Really apppreciate you taking the time.



  • GabeyJGabeyJ Red Chipper Posts: 436 ✭✭✭
    108s j8 Q8 K8 A8 Q10 maybe some A6s K6s J10s. Possibly has a flush and figured he only gets money out of you if you bluff. But I'm a lil stumped with his line what he is checking river with my. Not have more information on how wide he is protecting from the BB and his basic game style makes it a lil harder
  • GabeyJGabeyJ Red Chipper Posts: 436 ✭✭✭
    @Jules He also deff has some straights and two pair combos
  • JulesJules Red Chipper Posts: 441 ✭✭✭
    :Ah:Ts

    Yep! @GabeyJ Not what we were thinking huh? :)

    That is why I brought up the concept of people floating out of the blind and trying to rep something stronger with a CR or a bluff CR. He really wasn't a super active player. Didn't seem like one to defend his blind super wide. Had folded a few times to my BU raise, but that was when he was a little short. He had chipped up not long before this hand occurred.

    I can only assume he thought I was on the FD or had a straight by the river. If he wouldn't of flaked on the river I would of folded to a strong bet.

    I'm still trying to understand his CR on the turn...He only had a GS at that point. I guess that is what made me call (besides the math) I was like does he really have 7T or 57 for a straight here?

    Maybe slow played two pair on the flop.

    Maybe this is flawed thinking on my part, but I didn't believe the straight and I thought well if he has 2 pair I can still catch up on the river. Possibly? Also I had made the decision it was worth the call of 16k to win 60k and fold if he did go nuts on the river.

    If anybody has anything to add about how I approached this hand as played out please let me know. Appreciate the feedback thus far.
  • GabeyJGabeyJ Red Chipper Posts: 436 ✭✭✭
    so yeah still did that with a gut shot. And didn't have the balls to follow through with a few river jam. Which would have been sick. Hopefully you took a note on him. Unless you are playing on ignition. That's why I think the turn call is good here in general player will make a move here on you. But it's a tough spot to have to put yourself in. I really do think on the turn your ahead of
    Enough hands to call. Glad you came up on top
  • JulesJules Red Chipper Posts: 441 ✭✭✭
    I did take a note on him. And if he was paying attention should of taken a note on me! LOL.

    I'm glad it worked out as well. Ended up being a really lucky run for me. Until I did something stupid and went out in 13th! But stupidity is a whole other forum post.
  • david wdavid w Red Chipper Posts: 54 ✭✭
    I wish I saw this post before villains hand was exposed. The only questionable play that I see he mad was not 3betting pre. but even that is borderline.

    His play is something we all should incorporate into our games. Check-raising opponents that be to thin with hands that retain equity when called.
  • JulesJules Red Chipper Posts: 441 ✭✭✭
    david w wrote: »
    His play is something we all should incorporate into our games. Check-raising opponents that be to thin with hands that retain equity when called.


    I agree. It did make me take pause. I suppose he didn't think I would call. But I caught a piece and again the odds of calling 16k to win 60k was appealing. I may be flawed in making a decision like that, but it seemed like a good decision at the time. :) Why do you think he CR the turn and not the flop?
  • david wdavid w Red Chipper Posts: 54 ✭✭
    Three reasons.
    16k was a small amount to risk. Most players in small stakes look at check-raises in a binary manner and will fold incorrectly.

    He pcikedup equity when the 9 came and your bet indicated to him his hand was no longer best without improvement.

    The pot was large and the chips in the pot now were more important then future chips he makes when he makes his hand.

    Or maybe he was just clicking buttons. Hell, I don't know I can only tell you what I think.

    Hope it helps.

  • JulesJules Red Chipper Posts: 441 ✭✭✭
    Hi @Lauren ! Thanks for the input. Good points! I would def have folded river to a strong bet! And I agree there was no sense in CR turn without follow through on river.

    @david w I like to look at hands from both perspectives. Thanks. It does help!
  • uglytunauglytuna Red Chipper Posts: 130 ✭✭
    Two things to learn here that were mention.

    CR OTT, generally reps two pair+ or a huge draw.

    If you're the V and you CR as a bluff you need to follow it up your bet on the next street. Even if the board gets scary. Always stick to your plan.

    Last note, when you called the V's CR OTT you should always plan for the River and what the V is mostly likely going to bet.

    Good luck

    -Tuna

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