Gor for thin value or concealed the infos.

Adam WheelerAdam Wheeler Red Chipper Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭✭
edited February 2017 in General Concepts
I was wondering, you're on the river, still have initiative and position and V doesn't showed any desire to playback and would be really happy that you check back or make it cheap.

Would you go for extremely thin value knowing that V will probably call and be beat but he will see you cards and how you played it. In fact all the table will.

Or would you make it big enough to make him fold and concealed the infos about your game ?

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Answers

  • david wdavid w Red Chipper Posts: 54 ✭✭
    If I see you bet thinly on the river I will know that I can check-raise for value and as bluffs more often. I will also know that I cannot get marginal hands to show down as easy and I will be more susceptible to your semi bluffs.

    If you are showing down a weaker range pre flop then expect, I can 3 bet you more but your wider range will be harder to play against.

    Unless your are doing something totally out of line to exploit, that you can only continue doing if they don't recognize it. It doesn't matter. Most players will misinterpret what you are doing and will not consider all the factors you made in making the decision to play the hand the way you did.
  • JonasJonas Red Chipper Posts: 160 ✭✭
    The thin value might get you some money now, but going big and keeping your game a mystery might get you more later when that big bet is called by a more curious person.

    Is there anyone at the table who would be able to "download" you after seeing this play if you went thin?
  • JoeOffsuitJoeOffsuit Red Chipper Posts: 590 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2017
    When we are betting for thin value on the river, I trust we have a strong hand, that is far from the nuts, but we are selecting a bet size that will win more than 50% of the time when called.

    When we select a larger bet size with this hand, yes we get a lot more hands to fold and thus protect our hole card information, but we are now winning less than 50% of the time when called, making this (in my opinion) not such a great bet for us.

    My opinions:
    (1) While we are balancing our big river bets between very strong hands and bluffs, save some of our very strong hands for smaller river bet sizes, and
    (2) Balance our smaller river bet sizes with thin value bets, bluffs, and a couple very strong hands

    And then we don't worry about once in a while showing a hand with the small bet size, as we aren't always going to be showing thin value hands when we select that bet size and we are called.

  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 5,007 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting question, and valid in theory. Difficult if not impossible to quantify. Partially depends on whether you played the hand in such way that your opponents might think is noteworthy. In general, immediate profits normally trump longer term metagame speculation for me.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper Posts: 4,382 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you have a mixed river betting strategy, going for thin value is part of your play, why wouldn't you do it? If you are compromising your strategy by underbetting, why would you do that?

    Someone at the table is watching what you thin and what you max out, and you have to deal with the consequences - it is a concern but always secondary. There are no right answers, but there are better and worse responses.
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In the micro level I'm playing, I would 100% go for the thin value bet. I don't care if people see my hands, because almost nobody take note about my hands / how I'm playing, and fishes don't even take note when they are in hands themselves.

    Showing my cards would be an info only for good players (few in my level). But they won't rely only or mostly on one hand to play against me in the future.
  • SplitSuitSplitSuit RCP Coach Posts: 4,082 -
    I wouldn't reject @1BlackChip 's answer so quickly.

    The question heavily boils down to "are you overthinking what other players at the table could do with that information?" and what's the outright value of the thin value bet.

    I also consider how LAG I'm currently running and planning on running on this table. If getting called sends the message to the table that I am to be messed with - that will massively deteriorate my ability to get future bluffs through.
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  • jfarrow13jfarrow13 Red Chipper Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭✭
    Because I've been bluffing so much recently no. I might mix in a smaller size here or there against very specific opponents but generally no. You wanna see what I go to you pay full price. Pure value extraction makes you painfully easy to play against. Now if opponents never are folding to you, then you will clearly have to dial back the bluffing, but that doesn't mean your bets need to get smaller, you just need to show up with more bets for value than bluffs. In fact when I have monsters, say a set on a paired board and I suspect they have trips I'm over betting for max value.
    If they tank and tank and fold your in my pocket now my son, as I know if you'll
    Fold trips there, I can relentlessly bluff you. If I got top pair and I still bet on the river like 20% pot trying to get you to call with middle pair...that doesn't play into my strategy. I want to continuously apply pressure and focus on non-show down winnings until you get sick of it and adjust. Then your playing in my world of guessing games of do I have it or not. You wanna put your stack at risk for a 50/50 guess? Most $1-2 players say na not without at least 2 pair or a set.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    In general, I want to get paid off big when I make my hand. That means that I need to bet big both when I make my hand and when I miss.

    I also want to retain fold equity for my bluffs/semi-bluffs. That also means consistent bet-sizing.

    Barring a specific situation, villain, or reason, I tend to be consistently big.

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