Hand #6

BlayoBlayo Red Chipper Posts: 46
1/2 game. Boring TAG opens UTG to 10 and we call on the button, what's our range? We have to discount all the hands that we're definitely 3betting so this one switches it up from the first 5.

We're flatting 13.4% or 178 combos. AJo, AQo, AJs-A2s, TT-22,KQs-76s,KJs-T8s,KTs

BB comes along and there's $30 in the pot.

Flop comes :Kd: :9h: :6h:

We flatting range is 28.8% of previous street (46 combos)

The boring TAG leads for 2/3 pot (20) and we call. Our flatting range includes sets, TP, FD, OESD, and TT. I don't there's any reason to raise TP here, we're never getting better to fold and we fold out any hand that might want to try to bluff us on later streets. We would wind up charging his FDs but we don't want to face a 3bet and have to fold. Same goes for our FDs, we might fold out TT-QQ, but probably not, and we definitely do not want to get it in on the flop. You could argue to raise to Sets here but it's the same deal as TP minus the fact that we wouldn't mind being 3bet. we'd be folding out a lot of his hands.

As played 70 in the pot and the turn is the :5c:

Villain checks. We read this as him giving up and we're betting our ENTIRE range in this spot. All 46 combos. We bet 50 into 70 and something interesting happens. He check raises us to 175.
We call the 125 with 295 in the pot. but what do we call with here? We have 120 behind.

Personally, I'm not flatting anything here. We're shoving all of our sets, our 4 combos on straights, and that's it. We're folding our naked FDs and our TP+FDs as well. Quick math would show that even with implied odds of 120 on the river that we need to call 125 on the turn to win 415 total. our TP+FD against his "worst case scenario" range is 28% at best. We're not getting that price. His range includes KK, 99, and 66 for sure.. He might do this with AA, not sure. That's it. We're smoked against that range. i don't think we can give him QJh and J10h here. wouldn't he just shove those?

Oh, and he can definitely have AKhh here as well. We don't EVER expect him to have a random bluff here as per his boring TAG status.

So, since we're shoving the turn with out Sets and straights, we have nothing that'd we would just flat here. So 0% and 0 number of combos.

But we called....somehow....and the river is :Qs: and he shoves and we call. Since we don't ever have :Kh: :Qh: in this spot, because we folded it on the turn, we don't have much we call the river with. Strange.

I like how this hand added a new dynamic than the first 5 exercises.

Would LOVE some feedback on this one. Thanks for taking the time to read this. Take care.

Comments

  • kageykagey Red Chipper, KINGOFTAGS Posts: 2,241 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hey @Blayo
    there's lots of good discussion here:
    Hand #6 XX/Kd, 9h, 6h

    but you can always tag SplitSuits if you've come to different conclusions than the majority
  • kenaceskenaces Red Chipper Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭✭
    well I am not sure where this HH is from but would be nice to know stack size?

    On ~100bb vs "boring TAG" UTG open 10 handed I think your CC range is too wide and maybe should also include some JJ/QQ/AK
  • MattPMattP Red Chipper Posts: 98 ✭✭
    This one puzzled me too...

    Opening call range was 22+, any broadway combo, any suited connectors, any suited aces, any suited one gappers. With all that...

    Like Blayo, I was 0%/0 combos at the turn. I folded the turn with everything. Just not calling the nitty TAG's turn check raise.

    But assuming I temporarily lost my mind and called the turn. I'm only calling with KQ here. I just don't think super Nit tag show ups here on the river, shoving with less than top pair...
  • Troy HTroy H Red Chipper Posts: 36 ✭✭
    I am wondering why you wouldn't raise your flush draws in this spot.

    Vs a "boring tag"who isn't a maniac, I'd raise these hands and give him a chance to fold. I doubt he comes over the top. If not, we check the turn if no heart hits.

  • Laurence CLaurence C Red Chipper Posts: 28 ✭✭
    edited July 2017
    Here's my thoughts on this hand #6 exercise. I did a little reverse engineering and asked myself what is Villain's range when he opened the pot 5BB?
    Villain range: AA, KK, AKo, AKs, 99, 66, 87s.
    You may say that I have assigned a very narrow range for Villain, no, this is the range which I narrowed down after replaying the whole hand history backwards. So by linear logic, this is the most likely range which Villain could have started with.
    On the flop Villain makes a 2/3 bet pot size, this is a signal that Villain is thinking about playing for the stacks. He is building the pot to grow larger.
    On the turn, Villain goes for a check raise with the intention of shoving on the river, so what could Villain possibly check-raise with?
    Most unlikely Villain would check-raise with Top Pair (AK) or Overpair (AA), because the turn card makes a straight possible (87). So this leaves Villain with a set (KK, 99, 66) in his range since Villain is a TAG.
    Basically Villain is charging Hero for his flush draw. Since Hero misses the flush on the river, Hero folds (KhJh or KhTh).
    P.S.: if Villain was a LAG, it is quite possible that the LAG would have 87s in his range, and the LAG would bet his OESD on the flop.
  • RussRuss Red Chipper Posts: 110 ✭✭
    Discounting 3Bing range, my preflop range is

    QQ-22,AQo-AJo,KQo-KJo,QJo,AQs-A2s,KQs-KTs,QJs-QTs,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,76s. 16% of hands, 210 combos.
    More likely to call with AQ. Since my opponent is a TAG, more likely to call with JJ.

    Flop :KD::9H::6H:
    Boring Tag bets $20.

    My calling range is
    QQ-99,66,KQo-KJo,A9s,KQs-KTs,T9s,98s,87s,AhQh,AhJh,AhTh,Ah8h,Ah7h,Ah5h,Ah4h,Ah3h,Ah2h,QhJh,QhTh,JhTh

    I am raising with TPTK and KQ. I'll call with other top pairs. I'll call with flush draws with an Ace, King, probably a Queen. I would most likely fold 88 against the TAG.

    40% of previous range, 76 combos

    Turn is :5C:

    99,66,KQo-KJo,KQs-KTs,87s,AhQh,AhJh,AhTh,Ah8h,Ah7h,Ah5h,Ah4h,Ah3h,Ah2h,QhJh,QhTh,JhTh
    Because of the check I'm confident betting my top pair. I'll check the flush draw, and aside from the K which I bet, I don't have another pair + draw in my range.

    65% of previous range, 49 combos

    But wait! The evil villain puts in a check/raise! Is that legal in NLHE?

    On the check raise, I'm likely folding to this huge sign of aggression, remembering that Miller says a large bet/action on the turn or river is not a bluff. My range drops to straight or better, no draws. 99, 66, 87s. 13.2%, 10 combos

    River :QS:

    As stated, I'm getting a great price when facing the river all in. I'm also only playing two hands, the 78 straight or a set of 9s or 6's, since my KK is not in my preflop calling range. I have 2nd best on my sets and my straight, but I'll probably call because of the price.

    100% of previous range, 10 combos
  • Lisa VLisa V Red Chipper Posts: 2 ✭✭

    My interpretation of the boring TAG UTG is someone with tight ranges, bets/raises only decent hands, and is very face-up about it. Actions would definitely not indicate a TAG that leans towards being a calling station lol.

    PREFLOP
    I would only call PP, AXs, suited connectors, 1-gappers, and 2-gappers in my BTN range (242 combos - 18% - 22+, A2s+, KTs+, Q9s+, J8s+, T7s+, 96s+, 85s+, 74s+, 63s+, 53s+, 42s+, 32s).
    I would expect UTG to bet a 15% range in this way.

    FLOP
    I would call with two pair or better and draws of 8 outs or more (43 combos - 20%
    KhKs, KcKs, KcKh, 9c9s, 9d9s, 9d9c, 6c6s, 6d6s, 6d6c, AhTh+, Ah8h-Ah7h, Ah5h-Ah2h, KhTh+, QhTh+, JhTh, Jh8h, Th8h-Th7h, 9s6s, 9c6c, 9d6d, 87s, 8h5h, 7h5h-7h4h, 5h3h+, 4h2h+, 3h2h).
    UTG's bet size would seem to indicate one pair or better or large draws.

    TURN
    I would call re-raise with 3 of a kind or better, OESD, nut flush draws, or flush draws that are also strait draws (33 combos - 77% - KhKs, KcKs, KcKh, 9c9s, 9d9s, 9d9c, 6c6s, 6d6s, 6d6c, AhTh+, Ah8h-Ah7h, Ah5h-Ah2h, KhTh+, Jh8h, Th8h-Th7h, 87s, 8h5h, 7h4h, 4h2h+).
    UTG check-raise would probably indicate two pair or better.

    RIVER
    I would call a shove with a set of K or a strait. UTG could be shoving with KK, 99, 66, 55, K9s, 87s, 65s.

  • LeighLeigh Red Chipper Posts: 6 ✭✭
    Notes: $1/$2. The table has been very boring for the the last hour. No huge pots, no 3betting preflop, and no tough players in the game.

    EP2: Boreing TAG opens 5X from early position, I expect him to play pretty straight forward. I estimate he is opening ~10% of hands 136 combos. I base my calling range on his opening that I use from EP2. I would 3betting AA, KK, AKs, A5s, 98s (24 combos) to avoid a multi-way pot. I call from Button and BB (unknown) calls. For planning purposes I have BB calling with 31% (365 combos). I leave all his premium cards in his range as there has been no 3betting (QQ+, AK, AQ). Three to the flop with $30 pot.

    Am I more like to call or three bet with:
    • AQ? Call
    • JJ? Call


    Calling Range: 8.5%
    Combos: 112
    Range: QQ-77, AQs-ATs, A4s, KTs+, QTs+, J9s+, T9s, 87s, AQo+

    Flop: :Kd:9h:6h

    Notes: After EP2 opens and then Cbets the flop in a multi-way pot. I expect EP2 (straight forward) to Cbet with Sets, Top Pair, FD, OESD, Overpairs, Pocket Pairs below top pair, second pairs. Unknown in BB called to see a cheap flop, with my better hands I would reraise to get to heads up.

    Am I more likely to fold, raise or call with:
    • Top Pair? Raise (18 combos)
    • Flush Draws? Raise NFD (4 combos) and Call FD (5 combos)
    • 88? Calling (6 combos)
    Raise: Sets, Nut Flush Draws, Top Pair (25 combos), OESF Draw (87h)
    Call: (52 combos) Nut BDFD, Any Pair, OESD (less 87h),
    Fold:

    Range: 46%
    Combos: 52
    Range: QQ-TT, 9c9s, 9d9s, 9d9c, AhQh-AhTh, Ah4h, KsTs+, KhTh+, KcTc+, Js9s, Jc9c, Jd9d, Ts9s, Tc9c, Td9d, 8s7s, 8c7c, 8d7d, AhKs, AcKs, AcKh, AdKs, AdKh, AdKc, AsKh, AsKc, AhKc


    BB unknown folds, 2 to the turn in $70 pot

    Turn: :5c

    Notes: 5c is better for me. Completes OESD and eliminates the BDFD. My range is now ahead.

    EP2 Boring Tag checks and I bet $50

    Based on the range of hands I called the flop with, am I likely to bet or check the turn with:
    • Top Pair? Bet
    • Flush Draws? Nut FD Bet, FD Check
    • Pair and Draw? Kx FD Bet (no longer worried about AhX making Nutted BDFD).
    Betting Range: 71%
    Combos: 37
    Range: QQ-TT, 9c9s, 9d9s, 9d9c, AhQh-AhTh, Ah4h, KhTh+, Js9s, Jc9c, Jd9d, Ts9s, Tc9c, Td9d, 8s7s, 8c7c, 8d7d

    EP2 Check Raises to $175 (pot $295) $125 to call. I am getting 3.36 to 1 and need 22% equity to call. I believe he is making this play with all of his made hands NO BLUFFs. Sets, Straights, Over Pairs, Top Pairs (37 combos).

    Calling Range: 35%
    Combos: 13
    Range: 9c9s, 9d9s, 9d9c, AhQh-AhTh, Ah4h, KhTh+, 8s7s, 8c7c, 8d7d

    River: :Qs

    EP2 goes all in. He has Straight, Set, Over Pair, Top Pair and Good kicker. I fold

    I am getting a great price facing the river-all in. Would I call or fold with:
    • Two Pair? KQ call
    • Top Pair? I have KJ, KT firmly believe he has me out kicked … fold
    • Medium Pairs? I folded pocket pairs only below top pair at check raise

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