A sick bluff or a tight fold with top set?

OddAndyOddAndy Red Chipper Posts: 39 ✭✭
edited June 2017 in Live Poker Hands
Im in a very passive game $1/2 game with lots of limping. It's my regular game at a strip club and I know everyone at the table. I'm about $500 effective. Several limps and it gets around to me in the CO with 77, so I call, HJ calls, and BTN makes it $12. String of callers and the flop is at least 4 ways. I'm fairly deep with HJ and BTN who are good players.

Pot is $50 ish

7 6 4 with two hearts. Not sure but I think the 7 and 4 are hearts, which is important. Checks around to BTN who continues for $25. I would usually raise, but the BTN is a very good player who I think might fold an overpair if I raise, so I decided to play it tricky and just call this time. HJ calls as well, who is also a solid reg. Turn is an offsuit 5, which makes a four card strait. I check and now HJ bets out $55 and BTN folds. I call the $55 hoping to boat up. River is offsuit K. I check and HJ bets $100, more or less an all in bet for him. I tanked and ended up mucking, putting him on 89 or 88. He says he had J9 of hearts and missed the flush draw. I guess I can believe it, but seems so odd that he would bet into the BTN after the BTN had raised pre and bet flop a multiway pot...
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Comments

  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • OddAndyOddAndy Red Chipper Posts: 39 ✭✭
    Yep. Even if the cards are bad you still get to look at nice pairs haha
  • DeezNutsDeezNuts Red Chipper Posts: 122 ✭✭
    Sick bluff. Everything seems fine. Maybe raise flop?
    The real story is about the strip club.
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,027 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2017
    @OddAndy
    I can understand why you want to be tricky, but I think it's a bad spot for that.
    You've a great hand, the board is connected (flush+straight draws). I think it's a great spot to check-raise. (Based on the fact that we are sure that BUT will C-B, otherwise I would donkbet.)
    - First you don't want to draw to see a turn for a cheap price; you've to make them pay.
    - Second, you want to protect your semi-bluff. So you also need to check-raise strong value hands. And top set is a nice candidate for that.
    - Third there are many cards you don't want to see coming: any :HEART: and any 9, 8, 5, 3. Because it's bad for your equity, and because it may kill the action (harder to stack when you've the best hand).

    So C-R seems the best here. And if BUT fold to your C-R (or donkbet), it's good, because next time you do it with less value, he may fold against - but this time he would had been ahead.


    But yes, the real point is about the strip :D
  • NYI80283NYI80283 Red Chipper Posts: 56 ✭✭
    persuadeo wrote: »
    You play at a strip club?

    That is exactly what I thought, I really want to become a reg in this game.
  • MonadMonad Red Chipper Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭✭
    persuadeo wrote: »
    You play at a strip club?

    There's a couple of 1/2 games in PDX that run out of strip clubs. Guessing OP is from PDX.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭
    OddAndy wrote: »
    Im in a very passive game $1/2 game with lots of limping. It's my regular game at a strip club and I know everyone at the table. I'm about $500 effective. Several limps and it gets around to me in the CO with 77, so I call...

    Especially if it is such a passive game, then why are you just calling?

    OddAndy wrote: »
    Pot is $50 ish

    7 6 4 with two hearts. Not sure but I think the 7 and 4 are hearts, which is important. Checks around to BTN who continues for $25. I would usually raise...

    Especially if it is such a passive game, then why are you just calling? Also, @Red identifies all the reasons why this is a prime board for a check-raise.


    OddAndy wrote: »
    I check and HJ bets $100... seems so odd that he would bet into the BTN after the BTN had raised pre and bet flop a multiway pot...

    Really?? It's a very passive game!! BUT folded -- in this passive game and against this wet board -- and you have shown no strength. From V's perspective, it sure looks like you are on a missed draw... And, since he led out the turn, he either has a strong hand or can rep one.

    Throughout this hand, I think that you let the game's passivity seep into your play instead of using the game's passivity in general as an opportunity to ramp up your aggression. Even had you folded everyone out with the check-raise, this might have been a VERY rare time when I would have shown my hand. Given the game's passivity and you showing a monster, you can see what that opens up later...

  • morel huntermorel hunter Red Chipper Posts: 185 ✭✭
    My turn:).
    OddAndy wrote: »
    with lots of limping.

    Are you at the right strip club?



  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,668 ✭✭✭✭✭
    OddAndy wrote: »
    Several limps and it gets around to me in the CO with 77, so I call, HJ calls, and BTN makes it $12....Checks around to BTN who continues for $25. I would usually raise, but the BTN is a very good player who I think might fold an overpair if I raise, so I decided to play it tricky and just call this time. HJ calls as well

    First of all, the action is confusing because the Hijack acts before the Cutoff, and you seem to be confused about this.

    But anyway, there is a flush draw and straight draw on board so in a 4 way pot you have more things to worry about than "tricking" the button's overpair. Get a bunch of money in there and make 'em pay.

  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Seems more than appropriate to mention something i talk about sometimes. When you take a "hard" strategy - where lines have a logical conclusion or work with a set of assumptions from the moment the first bet goes in- your solutions are easier. Here you have turned a set into a bluffcatcher and it should resolve itself this way with a call. A "soft" strategy - such as one promulgated at a very amusing wed poker discussion group here in vegas and pushed here in the forums by many - is reactionary and creates guesswork. This is relevant to many recent threads, in particular the 99 and kk hands where posters follow the near universal pattern of wanting to deviate first, plan second.
  • zampana1970zampana1970 Red Chipper Posts: 546 ✭✭✭
    This is so Sopranos it hurts...
  • zampana1970zampana1970 Red Chipper Posts: 546 ✭✭✭
    @persuadeo why are you not writing a poker philosophy/high level strategy book? You say more in 5 sentences than many say in five posts...
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,668 ✭✭✭✭✭
    He does have a blog and he does coach, ya know :)
  • zampana1970zampana1970 Red Chipper Posts: 546 ✭✭✭
    Does he? I don't know nothing about anyone. Who is the mysterious @persuadeo?
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,027 ✭✭✭✭
  • zampana1970zampana1970 Red Chipper Posts: 546 ✭✭✭
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As a side note, i've been taking a break from blogging but am restarting with a new series on my group's experience at the s4y academy, and a fresh post from Gargamel will be released soon.
  • RCP Coach - Fausto ValdezRCP Coach - Fausto Valdez RCP Coach Posts: 829 ✭✭✭✭
    Does he? I don't know nothing about anyone. Who is the mysterious @persuadeo?

    we talk all the time and i still dont know, persuadeo at its finest
    COACHING NOW AVAILABLE HERE
  • Adam WheelerAdam Wheeler Red Chipper Posts: 2,647 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2017
    Does he? I don't know nothing about anyone. Who is the mysterious @persuadeo?

    @persuadeo doesn't really exist. Who is he? He is supposed to be Turkish. Some say his father was German. Nobody believed he was real. Nobody ever saw him or knew anybody that ever played directly with him, but to hear @Faustovaldez123 tell it, anybody could have played with @persuadeo . You never know. That is his power.

    He becomes a myth, a spook story that regs tell to the new comer. “Overbet bluff me river, and @persuadeo will get you.” And no-one ever really believes.

    An OMC at my local casino used to say "I don’t believe in luck, but I’m afraid of it".

    Well I believe in luck, and the only thing that scares me at a poker table is @persuadeo.
  • Dean MDean M Red Chipper Posts: 183 ✭✭✭
    An OMC at my local casino used to say "I don’t believe in luck, but I’m afraid of it".

    Well I believe in luck, and the only thing that scares me at a poker table is @persuadeo.

    And I am frightened just by his musings...

    "Matt Berkey is a sinewy man with a lean, slightly bulbous skull, shaven to the uneven surface his pock marked and rough face allows. His mouth, lined with a strong nasolabial fold, is naturally serious.

    When he grows his hair out, it clumps dense and brown and neat, vaguely Briton, yet in that state it doesn’t seem to belong to this particular face and head – a boy’s coif on a severe and indifferent countenance."

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