last 8 weeks of my poker life...

Michael WMichael W Red Chipper Posts: 81 ✭✭
....looks like this every day. its like im starting every day with -10 stacks

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools by CardRunners - Hand Details

Hero (BTN): $16.91 (169.1 bb)
SB: $5.49 (54.9 bb)
BB: $11.15 (111.5 bb)
UTG: $9.22 (92.2 bb)
MP: $14.49 (144.9 bb)
CO: $13.35 (133.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with Kheart4.gif Kdiamond4.gif
2 folds, CO raises to $0.25, Hero raises to $0.90, 2 folds, CO calls $0.65

Flop: ($1.95) 4heart4.gif 8heart4.gif 2spade4.gif (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $1, CO calls $1

Turn: ($3.95) Jdiamond4.gif (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $2.51, CO calls $2.51

River: ($8.97) 5spade4.gif (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $12.50 and is all-in, CO calls $8.94 and is all-in

Results: $26.85 pot ($1.21 rake)
Final Board: 4heart4.gif 8heart4.gif 2spade4.gif Jdiamond4.gif 5spade4.gif
Hero showed Kheart4.gif Kdiamond4.gif and lost (-$13.35 net)
CO showed 8club4.gif Jclub4.gif and won $25.64 ($12.29 net)


Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools by CardRunners - Hand Details

Hero (BTN): $24.71 (247.1 bb)
SB: $12.91 (129.1 bb)
BB: $10 (100 bb)
UTG: $48.89 (488.9 bb)
MP: $25.44 (254.4 bb)
CO: $12.32 (123.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with Qheart4.gif Qdiamond4.gif
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, SB raises to $1, BB folds, Hero calls $0.70

Flop: ($2.10) 8diamond4.gif Jdiamond4.gif Aheart4.gif (2 players)
SB bets $1.01, Hero calls $1.01

Turn: ($4.12) Qspade4.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.10, SB calls $2.10

River: ($8.32) 6diamond4.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3.98, SB raises to $8.80 and is all-in, Hero calls $4.82

Results: $25.92 pot ($1.17 rake)
Final Board: 8diamond4.gif Jdiamond4.gif Aheart4.gif Qspade4.gif 6diamond4.gif
Hero showed Qheart4.gif Qdiamond4.gif and lost (-$12.91 net)
SB showed Adiamond4.gif Kdiamond4.gif and won $24.75 ($11.84 net)



Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools by CardRunners - Hand Details

Hero (BTN): $24.22 (242.2 bb)
SB: $10 (100 bb)
BB: $10.75 (107.5 bb)
UTG: $25.16 (251.6 bb)
MP: $10.25 (102.5 bb)
CO: $11.06 (110.6 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with Jclub4.gif Jdiamond4.gif
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, SB raises to $1.05, BB folds, Hero calls $0.75

Flop: ($2.20) 6spade4.gif 8heart4.gif 3spade4.gif (2 players)
SB bets $1.35, Hero raises to $2.70, SB raises to $8.95 and is all-in, Hero calls $6.25

Turn: ($20.10) 4spade4.gif (2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($20.10) 7spade4.gif (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results: $20.10 pot ($0.90 rake)
Final Board: 6spade4.gif 8heart4.gif 3spade4.gif 4spade4.gif 7spade4.gif
Hero showed Jclub4.gif Jdiamond4.gif and lost (-$10 net)
SB showed Jspade4.gif Adiamond4.gif and won $19.20 ($9.20 net)

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Comments

  • Michael WMichael W Red Chipper Posts: 81 ✭✭



    Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools by CardRunners - Hand Details

    Hero (BTN): $23.82 (238.2 bb)
    SB: $23.66 (236.6 bb)
    BB: $15.84 (158.4 bb)
    UTG: $31.08 (310.8 bb)
    MP: $10.89 (108.9 bb)
    CO: $11.49 (114.9 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BTN with 7spade4.gif 7club4.gif
    UTG folds, MP raises to $0.25, CO folds, Hero calls $0.25, 2 folds

    Flop: ($0.65) 3spade4.gif 9diamond4.gif 7heart4.gif (2 players)
    MP bets $0.31, Hero calls $0.31

    Turn: ($1.27) 2heart4.gif (2 players)
    MP bets $0.61, Hero raises to $2.95, MP raises to $5.29, Hero raises to $23.26 and is all-in, MP calls $5.04 and is all-in

    River: ($21.93) 5spade4.gif (2 players, 2 are all-in)

    Results: $21.93 pot ($0.99 rake)
    Final Board: 3spade4.gif 9diamond4.gif 7heart4.gif 2heart4.gif 5spade4.gif
    Hero showed 7spade4.gif 7club4.gif and won $0.00 (-$10.89 net)
    MP showed 9heart4.gif 9spade4.gif and won $20.94 ($10.05 net)


    Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools by CardRunners - Hand Details

    BTN: $11.66 (116.6 bb)
    SB: $12.15 (121.5 bb)
    Hero (BB): $10 (100 bb)
    UTG: $15.55 (155.5 bb)
    MP: $11.59 (115.9 bb)
    CO: $16.83 (168.3 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with Kdiamond4.gif Aspade4.gif
    UTG raises to $0.27, 2 folds, BTN calls $0.27, SB folds, Hero raises to $1.50, UTG calls $1.23, BTN folds

    Flop: ($3.32) Jclub4.gif Jspade4.gif 7spade4.gif (2 players)
    Hero checks, UTG checks

    Turn: ($3.32) 6spade4.gif (2 players)
    Hero bets $1.80, UTG calls $1.80

    River: ($6.92) Tspade4.gif (2 players)
    Hero bets $2.18, UTG raises to $10.63, Hero calls $4.52 and is all-in

    Results: $20.32 pot ($0.91 rake)
    Final Board: Jclub4.gif Jspade4.gif 7spade4.gif 6spade4.gif Tspade4.gif
    Hero showed Kdiamond4.gif Aspade4.gif and lost (-$10 net)
    UTG showed Theart4.gif Tclub4.gif and won $19.41 ($9.41 net)

  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 673 ✭✭✭
    Any leaks in your play based on these hands that you can identify?
  • Michael WMichael W Red Chipper Posts: 81 ✭✭
    Any leaks in your play based on these hands that you can identify?

    all of them are huge fish that i know very well. your question remains?
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 2,552 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • Michael WMichael W Red Chipper Posts: 81 ✭✭
  • MonadMonad Red Chipper Posts: 975 ✭✭✭
    edited July 16
  • Jonothan BJonothan B Red Chipper Posts: 15 ✭✭
    At 10NL on Stars - my experience is that big river and turn raises and all-ins by fish are almost always the absolute nuts. Got the nut flush on the river but he's all in and the board is paired? Fold. You can prove this to yourself by filtering for all the times you called All-ins or large river and turn raises in your database. You're probably massively red. They just aren't bluffing here enough to get you profitable, even calling with what you think at the time is the nuts - if there's an absolute nuts out there I'm just folding. I guess that goes completely against equity calcs etc, but it's borne out of experience and looking through the betting patterns of those players in my database.
  • MonadMonad Red Chipper Posts: 975 ✭✭✭
    Michael W wrote: »
    Any leaks in your play based on these hands that you can identify?

    all of them are huge fish that i know very well. your question remains?

    Michael, a serious question, do you ever ask yourself, "Maybe I'm the Fish?"

    Not saying your plays are bad, I'm simply asking how honestly you're looking at your own flaws (or simply accepting that variance is part of the game) instead of focusing on the perceived shittiness of your opponent's play? All you've posted here are coolers -- what else do you want us to tell you? We can't physically pat you on the back. We all run bad sometimes brother.

    Self-analysis & look-yourself-in-the-mirror moments are 55-99% of conquering this game. That's why I posted the link to the book. Deal with yourself instead of internalizing a "woe-is-me" logic that will sink your game faster than you can imagine.

    Cheers.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 673 ✭✭✭
    Michael W wrote: »
    Any leaks in your play based on these hands that you can identify?

    all of them are huge fish that i know very well. your question remains?

    I'll speak to my natural tendency, though I have a hunch that it applies to many poker players, and I suspect that you and I are in the same boat.

    When I suffer a serious of coolers/bad beats, I tend to look at my opponents' play first and then lament the runout of the cards second. I'll even mentally berate my opponents.

    It took a LOT of time and effort for me to change that. Well, if I'm honest, I can't really change that. What I have done, though, is figure out a way to greatly reduce those first two steps. Sometimes it's a drive home, sometimes it's a day or two off from play, and sometimes it's even a matter of getting up, walking around the casino for five minutes, and getting a drink of water.

    Instead of focusing on my opponents' play, I now focus on mine. I consider:

    1) In the individual hands, I might have played them well. But, did I play them optimally? Was there something that I missed that could have protected my stack?

    2) Is there a leak ELSEWHERE in my game (i.e., not in these hands) that is giving my opponents reason to stay in hands with me when I show considerable strength? (Note: it's not bad if the answer yes -- nor it is good. But, if we have induced opponents to always stick with us, then, by percentage, we'll get coolered more frequently. And, while it might be good in an individual hand to have an opponent stay in with a weaker holding, is that good for your overall game?)

    I suspect by your posts in this thread that you're focused on the play of your opponents, but I think that there is room for healthy self-analysis and discussion about the two questions that I posed.

    My gentle suggestion would be that you take a couple of days to consider them and then post your thoughts here. I have thoughts already on them, but I believe that self-reflection first is more valuable than having someone else take a first stab. If you truly feel that you're drawing a blank, then I'll gladly offer up some thoughts to get things going.

    I know that I -- and here, too, I am am sure that I could include others on this forum -- would be glad to read your thoughts and try to help create a meaningful conversation out of them.
  • Michael WMichael W Red Chipper Posts: 81 ✭✭
    edited July 16
    ok, here is my story.

    i am 46 years old, so i am not a young gun who can´t deal with emotions and goes bonkers.
    i am a calm, very rational person. i consider myself very smart and intelligent.

    i started playing poker in april this year. before i started i watched easily 100 hours of videos (unfortunately almost all of them from 2005-2007, how bad that was i only noticed in late may) and read books (got my hand on copies of "let there be range" and "exploiting regulars" for a few bucks each).

    then i deposited 10 bucks at pokerstars and started playing nl2 6 max. crushed it for 30 BB/100. moved up to nl5 when i had 30 BIs. crushed it again. moved up when i had 30 BI for nl10. crushed it. when my BR was at 750 $ i decided to do one more session at nl10 and then move up to nl25. lost 12 BIs in that session. its when it all started. since then - about 2 months- i am not winning any big pots. all my strong hands get busted.
    flopped FH loses to runnerrunner quads several times. i lost 400BB pot w a str8 flush vs a str8 flush a week ago. preflop AIs w AA vs AK i can not win. KK vs QQ i can not win. AK vs AK i always (!) lose. i could post more than 100 hands here like AA vs 92o 3bet pot, ai on 932ss.
    i know those hands happen. they may even happen a lot when you play a lot (esp. zoom). but i should also win some big hands, right? i mean every now and then i should flop big when i resteal light and stack that overpair. but that doesnt happen. and thats the whole problem.

    and during all this time my redline keeps being horizontal. it doesnt go up cause i´d be tilt-shoving stuff. nope, i keep a clear mind.
    its not going down cause i am too worried to bluff that river or to valuebet thin. nope. i keep doing it. my redline keeps being horizontal.

    actually i find poker to be pretty easy (at least at my stakes). those really really tough decision are 1) rare and 2) almost always very ev-close which means your decision doesnt really matter and thus those hands dont effect your winrate.

    i have 2 big leaks. one is my unpatience. thats just my character. cant fix that.
    the other is hard to fix as well. nobody in my life cares about poker at all. i have no vent. nobody i can tell or show some sick hands and get that "aww, thats sick" answer and i feel better.

    i am really really frustrated atm

    oh, and i am not thinking that i am not a beginner still and that there is much room for improvement. there should be and i hope there is. but what i know and how i play should be more than enough to crush the micros
  • Ryan ARyan A Red Chipper Posts: 109 ✭✭
    So you started playing poker 3 months ago and you're wondering why you're not crushing it yet?
  • Michael WMichael W Red Chipper Posts: 81 ✭✭
    Ryan A wrote: »
    So you started playing poker 3 months ago and you're wondering why you're not crushing it yet?

    yes.why not? its not like snooker. i dont need to train my body. its all in your brain. its possible to crush 95% of the local chess club ppl after 3 months. poker is easier
  • Ryan ARyan A Red Chipper Posts: 109 ✭✭
    You seem to have some huge misconceptions about poker. Poker is not easy. If it were easy everyone would be good at it and retiring early
  • Michael WMichael W Red Chipper Posts: 81 ✭✭
    Ryan A wrote: »
    You seem to have some huge misconceptions about poker. Poker is not easy. If it were easy everyone would be good at it and retiring early

    its easy enough to crush the micros
  • Chris FChris F Red Chipper Posts: 115 ✭✭
    edited July 17
    Michael W wrote: »
    Ryan A wrote: »
    So you started playing poker 3 months ago and you're wondering why you're not crushing it yet?

    yes.why not? its not like snooker. i dont need to train my body. its all in your brain. its possible to crush 95% of the local chess club ppl after 3 months. poker is easier

    Poker is a more complicated game than chess. Chess is a solved game where the best computers beat the top chess champions. There is yet to be a computer that can compete with top pros in a full game.

    Doug Polk spent a year at low stakes and almost gave up at one point because he was having so much trouble. It took Fedor Holz two years to get out of the micros. Both of these guys are world class poker players today but it took both of them a lot of time and effort to get there.
  • Michael WMichael W Red Chipper Posts: 81 ✭✭
    Chris F wrote: »
    Doug Polk spent a year at low stakes and almost gave up at one point because he was having so much trouble.
    why?
    It took Fedor Holz two years to get out of the micros.
    why?


    what was/is their problem with the micros?

  • Chris FChris F Red Chipper Posts: 115 ✭✭
    edited July 17
    I don't know the specifics of what problems and issues they faced. There is a 2+2 thread from 2007 where Doug Polk talks about having trouble and he said on his reddit AMA he almost quit.

    Fedor Holz said on his reddit ama it took him two years to get through the micros and another year at mid stakes before he figured it out and moved to the high stakes.

    " I cant even fathom how certain games can be "beaten". I know, im going to get laughed at, but it seems like all of the options i get every hand always result in me doing poorly. Ive played roughly 15K hands and i just dont know what to do.

    Perhaps the most frustrating thing for me is, the people on this site make everything seem so incredibly easy. I dont know what to say. I struggle at micro limits and small time Sit and Go's and MTT's, and when i win its for too small an amount to offset my losses. "
    - Doug Polk 2007
  • CASEY MCASEY M Red Chipper Posts: 86 ✭✭
    edited July 17
    Michael W wrote: »
    Chris F wrote: »
    Doug Polk spent a year at low stakes and almost gave up at one point because he was having so much trouble.
    why?
    It took Fedor Holz two years to get out of the micros.
    why?


    what was/is their problem with the micros?

    Your original post should answer this for you.
    It's a very tough game. I'm 39 and moved up to 50nl from 5nl before Black Friday when games were softer.
    You keep asking "why?".... study more and work on your mental game and you'll be answering "why" on your own much more often.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 2,514 ✭✭✭✭
    I think you have a negative mindset. Your posting these coolers, but just by reading hand history on some of them I can put you basically on the hand you have. For example the AKo on JJx. Are you checking QQ-AA there as well to balance your AK hands?

    But on the bright side, your losing a bunch of 200bb stacks, but I also see on some of your HH your 200bb+ deep yourself, so you must of stacked someone before taking the bad beat.

    I will point your you probably need to work on your 4 bet game and also some post Flop lines.

    For example not 4 betting QQ Btn vs blinds. Maybe your just extremely polarized and you want to keep their range wide. For me Btn vs blinds QQ is a 4 bet. Bet sizing is ok, but can be bigger on certain streets based on flop texture. Also im not sure why you go crazy with JJ in a 3 bet pot. Vs his range, when you raise his cbet on a low texture what are you hoping to get it in against or are you "protecting" your hand ?

    Its very small things I would tweak in your game.

    In terms of poker being easy and your able to crush it, comes with table selection. If you can beat 50NL-200NL with your current straight forward approach ill be impressed. You play well for a micro player but its another ball game in the low to mid stakes.

    With all my knowledge I don't think ill be able to beat 50NL+ in today's online society. Would definitely need to invest in a coach who plays in today's games.

    Keep posting some HH, don't post results, and we will offer feedback as well. I have a ton of experience at 10nL and 25nl so I can help you with those levels.
  • Michael WMichael W Red Chipper Posts: 81 ✭✭
    i am not discussing those hands. its easy to "see" probable mistakes in a vacuum, but all my decision have a reason. when i flat QQ vs a resteal i have a reason, when i minraise the cbet of that maniac w JJ i have a reason etc.
  • MonadMonad Red Chipper Posts: 975 ✭✭✭
    Michael W wrote: »
    i am not discussing those hands. its easy to "see" probable mistakes in a vacuum, but all my decision have a reason. when i flat QQ vs a resteal i have a reason, when i minraise the cbet of that maniac w JJ i have a reason etc.

    You have your "reasons". Great. Put in more volume then. Move on. Stop dwelling on hands that teach you nothing -- or just keep telling yourself (and a forum full of anonymous strangers who are actually trying to give you good advice) that A) you've solved low stakes NLH after 3-months because you're 46, "calm", & "very smart", B) many/most of your opponents suck and/or are fundamentally worse than you, and C) talking about hand histories is a triviality.

    Beyond that, the only two leaks in your game that you are able to identify are impatience (which allegedly you can't possibly break the habit of -- Old Dog Logic I guess) & being surrounded by people who don't want to hear your bad-beat stories? Come on Michael -- NOBODY (even poker friends) wants to hear your bad beat stories. I know some very lonely humans -- be happy/satisfied to be surrounded by people (who presumably care about you) in the first place.

    Like I said before: we all experience run bad my friend, welcome to Poker (the capital "P" is for "Pain"). This ain't chess, and quite frankly it owes you nothing (to quote @persuadeo ). You're not going to convince seasoned people here that your streak of bad luck is exceptional -- especially when we're in no position to analyze your overall strategy/stats/volume. A serious question: how do you know your first couple months wasn't just pure beginners luck?
  • Michael WMichael W Red Chipper Posts: 81 ✭✭
    never said that there are only 2 leaks.
    didnt start this thread to discuss hands.
    just needed a vent, thats why this is in offtopic.
    dont want to convince somebody of anything.

    actually all i wanted was a reply like: yeah sucks. keep grinding and learning.

    the least thing you want to hear in that particular moment your are venting is: YOU SUCK!
  • Michael WMichael W Red Chipper Posts: 81 ✭✭
  • Jónas SJónas S Red Chipper Posts: 127 ✭✭
    Michael W wrote: »
    i have 2 big leaks. one is my unpatience. thats just my character. cant fix that.
    the other is hard to fix as well. nobody in my life cares about poker at all. i have no vent. nobody i can tell or show some sick hands and get that "aww, thats sick" answer and i feel better.

    I disagree, you can fix that. You can easily learn how to not be inpatient at the table. You can make a habit out of monitoring every action that happens at the table, if you get bored you're not paying close attention. Imagine which ranges the villains are representing when you're not in a hand, think what you'd do differently. Take notes on hands that go to showdown and use it to help you construct their range which helps you when you do go to war with them. Use breathing techniques to be present. There are a few very good mindset podcasts out there that can help you get a better understanding of this.

    You should not have the need to get the "aww, thats sick" response, if you need it then it means you're having serious tilt issues that are more important to fix than sharing and getting that response. The response won't help you in any manner, maybe it will but for all the wrong reasons. You won't learn what you did wrong or accept what you couldn't change. You have an audience to share your hands, this forum. You can choose whether you want to use it to actually learn from your plays or whether you just want the "sorry man, you just got unlucky, you're doing the right thing here" -- you're just not going to get better if that's all you're looking for. If you know the play was correct.

    In the end of the day, you should be thrilled that fishes are calling you with weak kickers, in the long run they won't hit and you will take their cash -- but only if you accept the variance. Besides, there will be times where you will get it in with a worse hand and draw the other one out. Don't forget that.

    A bit of a rant but tl;dr if you're bored, you're doing it wrong. If you hate getting sucked out, you're doing it wrong. Don't share the bad beats as a way to get empathy, share the losses and the winners to get analytical responses. The result doesn't matter. There's always the next hand.

    Good luck, I'm sure that with a tiny bit of mental inspiration you'll be crushing it again in no time.
  • Michael WMichael W Red Chipper Posts: 81 ✭✭
    im crushing it the whole time. im just not getting the result atm.

    but, well, i regret to have this thread created
  • bigburge10bigburge10 Red Chipper Posts: 985 ✭✭✭✭
    What size do you wear?

    r88k5cw2nony.png
  • bigburge10bigburge10 Red Chipper Posts: 985 ✭✭✭✭
    Michael W wrote: »
    im crushing it the whole time. im just not getting the result atm.
    This is a very dangerous mindset.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 673 ✭✭✭
    @Michael W. As the first person to respond, I didn't realize that this was intended to be just a vent thread (I didn't see that in your initial post, and I might have just misinterpreted it). I certainly would not have posted as I did had I known.
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