First post :) Tough spot for a new player post flop MTT

Tate CTate C Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
Hi guys first off I'd like to say thanks for checking out this hand, I'm not new to poker but this is my first time ever asking for advice on a hand.

I was playing in a live MTT that was a knockout tournament. Before this play I had 50BB. I'm going to type out my entire thought process and what was going through my mind as an amateur/rookie player.

Here's the situation. 13/59 players remaining. Blinds 800/1600 with 200 ante. Top 6 is in the money. $25 per knockout. At my table there were 6 other players, 5 with less than 20BB. I have 50BB and the villian in this play has 49BB.

I get dealt :Qc :Jc

UTG folds to me (UTG+1). I raise to 4K. I raised here because I felt at this table most people are playing really tight even with less than 20BB. There shoving range is way tighter than what should be expected. With a huge chip advantage I felt as though I should be putting pressure on the short stacks and even if I get a few call behinds QJc in my opinion plays well multiway.

After my raise it gets folded to the BB who is the villain. Villain 3 bets to 10K. It's important to note here that the villain has had a lot of chips and has been opening very wide. Definitely had the read that the villain was a LAG.

After the 3-Bet I 4 bet to 26k. At this point I wasn't really sure what to do to be honest, it was a spot I'm not put in very often. I wanted to play the tournament more aggressive than I usually play. I figured the BB had a large 3-Bet range and would bluff 3-bet a large amount of time. So I raised to what I did (not totally sure if the sizing is correct.) My 4-Bet gets called.

Flop comes :7d :Ts :Jd

Villain checks, I bet 1/3 to half pot. Villain shoves around 25K.

This is where I had no idea what to do. I made the decision to call the All-in because the I thought the villain had a wide range. I thought id be ahead of 8s 9s and 6s AK and AQ. I also wanted to stay aggressive. This was my thought process for calling.

I thought of folding in that spot for these reasons. I'd still have around 25-30k chips which was almost double average stack. The short stacks would be nice pickings for the $25 bounty.

I called because I wanted to chip up to 150K and be chip leader by almost 70K chips.

Villain had :Qs :Kc and the turn was a 9 river a 4.

I left the casino mad of course because I was ahead, but ultimately I felt good that I thought through the situation and didn't blind call. Initially I thought I made the right decisions without a doubt, but the more I review the hand I'm not so sure. Looking back I think I should be folding to the 3-Bet but again, I'm not advanced and don't know these spots.

This is my first time giving a hand to review and please give any feedback you can even if it's just a better way to format these hands! I'm not sure if I'm given too much or too little information. I'm posting this before I fall asleep so I'd love to wake up to some comments and feedback.

Thanks in advance everyone, looking forward to more active participation on these forums!


  • tripletiretripletire Red Chipper Posts: 322 ✭✭✭
    You should be looking to call vs 3bets with this type of hand, one that flops very well and plays nicely post. You're IP, deep enough, and are being laid a good price as well. A more standard and easier to play (and likely more profitable) line would be to call the 3bet, call/call/decide river on this runout.
  • Jónas SJónas S Red Chipper Posts: 202 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2017
    "After the 3-Bet I 4 bet to 26k"

    I don't like this. You can only get 5bet by better than what you have so just call in position. There's no reason to bloat the pot, there's no way he's folding to a x2.6 anyway so you're not getting him out of the pot by any means other than by going all in or making the raise bigger. Also, look at his stack, when he raises you to 10k there's a decent chance that his remaining stack is ready to go in the middle. I'm not saying that you should never mix in hands like this into your 4bet range, but be sure that the result is not going to commit both you and V.

    This flop hits his range very well. With the chips he has remaining there's no way he's folding with the stack-to-pot size ratio if he owns anything on the board or has draws. He's going to push it in given the chance. It's a draw heavy board so I don't mind the bet but don't bet unless you're willing to call the shove. A basic equity calculation will tell you whether it's correct or not.

    You got unlucky in this case but let's face it, on the flop there's a decent chance that he has 2p, KJ even beats you, AJ as-well, or flush draws/straight draws. You're screwed against sets. The main key here, however, is that we shouldn't be in this spot in the first place.

    Live and learn. Don't beat yourself over it.

    Recommend taking a look at the MTT crash course on this site, it will save you a lot of headaches.
  • Tate CTate C Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
    Thanks to both you guys for this input. Looking back I wasn't flatting 3-Bets IP very often so that should be something I take a look at more closely.

    I also didn't realize that if villain is putting in 10K that means they would be willing to play for their entire stack, also didn't conclude that that board hit villains range better than mine.

    Thanks again guys I've got some good material to go over this next week :)
  • OutlierOutlier Red Chipper Posts: 158 ✭✭
    I would agree with other posters that your hand is too in-between here to 4-bet. I'd actually like a hand like QJs or JTs to play in a 3-bet pot IN POSITION. That's the key for me, being in position, that leans me toward calling the 3-bet preflop.

    That being said, your idea of trying to keep up the aggression and initiative really resonates with me. I would say definitely keep that up, even if it led you perhaps to the wrong decision in this hand.

    The part of your play I like least is actually the flop bet. What are you trying to accomplish with a 1/3 to 1/2 pot bet in a bloated pot on a wet board with tiny SPR? That bet is just burning chips. I think your two options are
    1. Check behind. You now beat all his bluffs but almost none of his made hands.
    2. Shove all in. You don't give exact stack sizes but if you started with 49 BB, that would be ~78k. So with the action, the pot is about 55k and you have only 52k behind. Shoving all in denies his equity with KQ and AK. You'd have to break down his range a bit to see if there are enough bluffs in his range here. If he's 3-betting KQo, I'm guessing he could have a lot offsuit broadways like ATo, AJo, QJo, KJo. Not sure there enough of those hands in there which have equity but are behind your hand to warrant this play.

    I think it worth examining villain's play. To some extent, you fell victim to an overplay on his part that worked out for him.
    1. He 3-bets KQo vs an EP open?
    2. He 3-bets vs the only stack at the table who can hurt him?
    3. He misses the opportunity to play a stronger than usual hand from the BB?
    4. He 3-bets when there is no reason to isolate as he is closing the action?
    5. He calls off effectively his tournament life on a draw?
  • Tate CTate C Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
    Thank you for this response. The stack sizes ended up being ~75k for me and I covered the villain by 600 chips. So basically even stacks.

    I agree with you, my bet after the flop was bad. I got too excited about top pair.

    I'm going to run this situation with what I think the villains range was, which imo is super wide.

    One question I have is that if I shove post flop is the villain pot committed and must call to protect her equity?Or is there folding potential here?

  • OutlierOutlier Red Chipper Posts: 158 ✭✭
    @Tate C It's going to be pretty close spot for him; I would imagine he would have to call off, so the hand would have played the same.

    The benefit of shoving, though, is that now you put this guy in a spot to think, "Why the eff did I play this hand this way and put myself in this spot?" You put him in a position to think about if he wants to call off his tournament life on a draw when he can fold and still have plenty of chip to put pressure on others or pick better spots.

    I think it's interesting to consider what range he puts you on when you shove. You mentioned that you were trying to play more aggressive...what was your image at the table? How do you think villain perceived you? Just trying to figure what kind of range he can put you on.

    The trouble for him is that even if he puts you on a bluff, you are bluffing with some of his outs (AK, for example)/some of his outs aren't pure.

    I tried this range for you in PokerCruncher: TT+, AQs+, AKo, ATo, KJo+, QJo. It can be adjusted. I tried to throw in some bluffs, but I think all the bluffs you show up with here have some equity. This gives him about 35% equity, which is pretty much breakeven. Does he want to call off his tournament life on a breakeven call?

  • Tate CTate C Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
    We had recently moved tables so I didn't have many hands with the table. I imagine the villain saw me as a lag because I had raised 3 of the last 5 hands. Besides hands I raised im a young player and look very young. People tend to think I don't know poker at all and I'm just a fish. Usually the old people at the table congratulate me when I win a pit and give me a thumbs up. Like they would do to their grandchild. They definitely don't expect me to be thinking about hands this in depth.

    Thanks for running that for me I appreciate it. I think knowing my opponent I should have showed first. If she calls it's the same result but I believe she would be folding more than optimal.

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