My Friend Wants to Turn Pro....

bigburge10bigburge10 Red Chipper Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭✭
I had a somewhat interesting conversation with a friend(we don't talk very often) last night: he's thinking about quitting his job and playing poker professionally. He did most of the talking, but his statements are quite revealing to me. I know we've seen threads where similar statements are discussed, but this conversation was like a one-stop shop buffet. Honestly, I thought I was being trolled--sadly, I wasn't.

"I can make $45/hour at 2/5 playing snug"

Perhaps this is true. However, it certainly isn't a given. This will heavily rely on finding a game where a snug style will win at that kind of rate. Which brought us to this:

"If I'm sitting at a table where nobody will pay me off, I'll just pay the blinds until I get a table change"

And there it is. We've had this conversation in another thread. Certainly, there is some merit in finding an easier game. If you're outmatched, then by all means find the game where you can thrive. However, this appears to be this player's main strategy--which I don't think anyone here will think is a great idea. He actually said "I will not challenge a player who I think is better than me". It becomes important to note that this guy plays 1-2 and 2-5 and he won't be running into a Tom Dwan at these games. Which brought us to this:

"I don't need to study as my game is fine"

Now, I know this guy isn't a student of the game. He's never read a book nor participated in a forum or online resource. He's developed his game by playing, which often leaves him behind the curve. The thing that just doesn't resonate with me is a player wanting to be a professional at something without putting in any practice/development/training time. What other professional, in business, sports, etc doesn't attempt to develop themselves further? Which brought us to this:

"I've mastered the math"

Perhaps I was left unimpressed because in his mind, mastering this very basic skill is almost equal to mastering the game. I thought he would be referring to some of the more advanced, deductive reasoning things like combos, ranges, frequency, etc. Oddly enough, he wasn't all that aware of those things. Which brought us to this:

"I know how to call with 76s and stack a player with aces"

I mean, stand in line buddy. Your entire player pool knows how to do this. Which brought us to this:

"I'm crushing the game"

C'mon, you knew this was coming. Hell, I knew this was coming; another game crusher.

So, here's fair warning: watch out for this player. His strategy is so sophisticated that it can be boiled down to raising 76s, table changing often, and knowing that his 8 outs have about 32% equity. Or is it 16%? Many "game crushers" have this same strategy. Imagine if the real game crushers offered this same advice.

I almost forgot--I asked him:

"How would you go about beating me?"

I thought his response was priceless. He described a scenario where he would limp in for $5, and would call up to a $40 raise (2-5 game). From there the goal is simple: he's going to flop a set and stack me. "Is that all?" I asked. "Pretty much" he said. I wish I could find a picture of my face at this moment in time.

At this point, I started to question why I even bother to be a Red Chip member, receive coaching from Fausto, be apart of the Easy Game group with Persuadeo, and the Wolf Pack group. This player is giving me a map for crushing the game--for free. Why didn't I think of this? Just flop a damn set, and stack your opponent.

I wish this guy luck. I have a feeling he's going to need it.


Comments

  • eugeniusjreugeniusjr Red Chipper Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    Contact info?

    I'm pretty lucky myself....
  • eugeniusjreugeniusjr Red Chipper Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    bigburge10 wrote: »
    At this point, I started to question why I even bother to be a Red Chip member, receive coaching from Fausto, be apart of the Easy Game group with Persuadeo, and the Wolf Pack group.

    They need to make money too.
  • bigburge10bigburge10 Red Chipper Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭✭
    eugeniusjr wrote: »
    Contact info?

    I'm pretty lucky myself....

    You don't want to bump heads with this guy. He'll chew you up, take your whole bankroll.
  • Adam WheelerAdam Wheeler Red Chipper Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2017
    Wolf Pack Group !? Sounds like a pimps group.

    They dismantle a group named Wolf Pack couple years ago in Quebec City. They were a Crips affiliate pimps group, just sayin :)

    https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_Pack_(organisation_criminelle)
  • SplitSuitSplitSuit RCP Coach Posts: 4,082 -
    Read the whole thing. Made me sad =(

    I really hope he doesn't have a family to support...
    📑 Grab my custom poker spreadsheet pack right now.
    📘 Start the Preflop & Math Poker Workbook today.
  • bigburge10bigburge10 Red Chipper Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2017
    Wolf Pack Group !? Sounds like a pimps group.

    They dismantle a group named Wolf Pack couple years ago in Quebec City. They were a Crips affiliate pimps group, just sayin :)

    https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_Pack_(organisation_criminelle)

    Yeah, well we're back! Stronger then ever!
  • bigburge10bigburge10 Red Chipper Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭✭
    SplitSuit wrote: »
    Read the whole thing. Made me sad =(

    I really hope he doesn't have a family to support...

    Whoa whoa. Back the truck up. You don't think he's going to lose do you? I mean, once he flops that set and catches that straight with 76s, he's going to be stylin'.
  • eugeniusjreugeniusjr Red Chipper Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
    SplitSuit wrote: »
    Read the whole thing. Made me sad =(

    I really hope he doesn't have a family to support...

    So... one of your suits is a heart.
  • Adam WheelerAdam Wheeler Red Chipper Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭✭
    eugeniusjr wrote: »
    SplitSuit wrote: »
    Read the whole thing. Made me sad =(

    I really hope he doesn't have a family to support...

    So... one of your suits is a heart.

    Don't forget it is splited.
  • Adam WheelerAdam Wheeler Red Chipper Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭✭
    bigburge10 wrote: »
    Wolf Pack Group !? Sounds like a pimps group.

    They dismantle a group named Wolf Pack couple years ago in Quebec City. They were a Crips affiliate pimps group, just sayin :)

    https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_Pack_(organisation_criminelle)

    Yeah, well we're back! Stronger then ever!

    Pimpin chips and stacks.
  • zampana1970zampana1970 Red Chipper Posts: 549 ✭✭✭
    @bigburge10 Isn't it your responsibility to the RCP community to intensely encourage this guy to follow his dreams and then let us know when and where he's playing and what he looks like?
  • SplitSuitSplitSuit RCP Coach Posts: 4,082 -
    bigburge10 wrote: »
    SplitSuit wrote: »
    Read the whole thing. Made me sad =(

    I really hope he doesn't have a family to support...

    Whoa whoa. Back the truck up. You don't think he's going to lose do you? I mean, once he flops that set and catches that straight with 76s, he's going to be stylin'.

    I just fear that one time he's going to flop two pair with 76s, get it all-in against AA, and that pesky AA is going to suckout.
    eugeniusjr wrote: »
    So... one of your suits is a heart.

    nhwp
    Don't forget it is splited.

    gg
    📑 Grab my custom poker spreadsheet pack right now.
    📘 Start the Preflop & Math Poker Workbook today.
  • JonasJonas Red Chipper Posts: 160 ✭✭
    I aspire to reach this guy's level: "The only coaching I need is how to stack all the chips I'm winning."
  • bigburge10bigburge10 Red Chipper Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭✭
    @bigburge10 Isn't it your responsibility to the RCP community to intensely encourage this guy to follow his dreams and then let us know when and where he's playing and what he looks like?

    Well, I'm wondering how I can profit from this. Perhaps I can offer some sort of annual subscription service where I'll provide his whereabouts each week. Perhaps even offer a rakeback of sorts by donating a % of all sales to his bankroll.
  • bigburge10bigburge10 Red Chipper Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Jonas wrote: »
    I aspire to reach this guy's level: "The only coaching I need is how to stack all the chips I'm winning."

    Surprisingly I've never seen a single article, book, or video about this. It's almost as if all of this information I'm consuming is setting me up for failure.
  • rabidjazzrabidjazz Red Chipper Posts: 107 ✭✭
    Jonas wrote: »
    I aspire to reach this guy's level: "The only coaching I need is how to stack all the chips I'm winning."

    This is going to be the subject of my first poker book.

    -rJ
  • ArtArtBobartArtArtBobart Red Chipper Posts: 356 ✭✭
    My guess is he's all talk and will never do it. If he does, he'll be back to the 9 to 5 eventually. He will have had his month of living the dream.
  • JonasJonas Red Chipper Posts: 160 ✭✭
    edited August 2017
    bigburge10 wrote: »
    Jonas wrote: »
    I aspire to reach this guy's level: "The only coaching I need is how to stack all the chips I'm winning."

    Surprisingly I've never seen a single article, book, or video about this. It's almost as if all of this information I'm consuming is setting me up for failure.

    You don't hear about it a lot because it's really only a problem the true crushers have to deal with.

    I actually offer stack management services. My fee is super low: 1 stack per hour. The higher the denomination, the quicker I can get you to building Mercier Castles.
  • bigburge10bigburge10 Red Chipper Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Jonas wrote: »
    I actually offer stack management services.

    STACK MANAGEMENT SERVICES

    I just spit out my coffee and I wasn't even drinking any.

  • kenaceskenaces Red Chipper Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭✭
    I have played with "bad regs" like this many times over the years, and have seen most of them disappear from poker scene 1-2 years after they started playing for a living.

    Of the Pros that are still around the one thing they all have in common is always working to get better at the games. Granted this can be a challenge sometimes as live 2/5 NLH is intellectually that challenging so it can be easy to coast.
  • Adam WheelerAdam Wheeler Red Chipper Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭✭
    bigburge10 wrote: »
    Jonas wrote: »
    I actually offer stack management services.

    STACK MANAGEMENT SERVICES

    I just spit out my coffee and I wasn't even drinking any.

    Thats a thing Norris do everyday.
  • bigburge10bigburge10 Red Chipper Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Funny Update---this guy has created some sort of group email and he's signing his responses "Best Poker Player in the Group"

    I wonder if he's just trolling me at this point.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper Posts: 4,382 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • GTOLifeGTOLife Hudson Valley, NYRed Chipper Posts: 907 ✭✭✭
    And you guys wonder why I want to go full time pro? You see me putting in 36 hour stretches of play/study. I would never not work like this. If I'm making $45/hr @ 2/5, we're building the roll and moving up to 5/10. The sky's the limit, not just sitting there and waiting for a set to stack grandma with.
  • MonadMonad Red Chipper Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2017
    *shrug* Maybe he's actually a winning player. A jackass, no doubt, but so what? As long as he doesn't berate his customers like other pro-wanna-be's. I know a # of guys w/ blind hubris who are leaky as hell, but still win. His logic might be "bad", but not all of it, & look at the poker playing population as a whole. You do not need a near perfect strategy to beat this game, despite the population having gotten "better" over the years. The soft-elitism "serious" players here & elsewhere demonstrate always amuses me. So you found a player who utilizes a less robust strategy than you -- shocking. In a complex, relational game of hidden information, perfect play is a myth, and not even remotely necessary at most stakes.
  • Chris FChris F Red Chipper Posts: 155 ✭✭
    Monad wrote: »
    *shrug* Maybe he's actually a winning player. A jackass, no doubt, but so what? As long as he doesn't berate his customers like other pro-wanna-be's. I know a # of guys w/ blind hubris who are leaky as hell, but still win. His logic might be "bad", but not all of it, & look at the poker playing population as a whole. You do not need a near perfect strategy to beat this game, despite the population having gotten "better" over the years. The soft-elitism "serious" players here & elsewhere demonstrate always amuses me. So you found a player who utilizes a less robust strategy than you -- shocking. In a complex, relational game of hidden information, perfect play is a myth, and not even remotely necessary at most stakes.

    You do bring up a good point. There are winning 2/5 players at my local casino that would look at you like you were speaking a different language if you asked him about combinatorics. Bring up the concept of range advantage and he would say "you mean like putting them on a hand? I do that sometimes."

    2/5 is often not much harder than 1/2 at many places and there are some winning players who don't study take it seriously. That said, most of them aren't crushing either.

    Study and good things will happen.

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