$1.05 HUSNG Turbo, 9To For The Win

Joseph FJoseph F Red Chipper Posts: 416 ✭✭
edited September 11 in Online Poker Hands
Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD & Database

NL Holdem $40(BB)
BB ($814)
HERO ($2186)

Dealt to Hero T:spade: 9:club:

HERO Calls $20 (Rem. Stack: 2146), BB Checks

Flop ($80) 5:diamond: T:club: A:heart:
BB Bets $40 (Rem. Stack: 734), HERO Calls $40 (Rem. Stack: 2106)

Turn ($160) 5:diamond: T:club: A:heart: A:diamond:
BB Bets $40 (Rem. Stack: 694), HERO Raises To $100 (Rem. Stack: 2006), BB Calls $60 (Rem. Stack: 634)

River ($360) 5:diamond: T:club: A:heart: A:diamond: J:club:
BB Checks, HERO Bets $80 (Rem. Stack: 1926), BB Raises To $634 (allin) (Rem. Stack: 0), HERO :random

Comments

  • tripletiretripletire Red Chipper Posts: 229 ✭✭✭
    Why did you raise turn?
  • Joseph FJoseph F Red Chipper Posts: 416 ✭✭
    tripletire wrote: »
    Why did you raise turn?

    Because I was next to positive he didn't have an ace and at that point I felt I was ahead of his range.
  • Joseph FJoseph F Red Chipper Posts: 416 ✭✭
    Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD & Database

    NL Holdem $40(BB)
    BB ($814)
    HERO ($2186)

    Dealt to Hero T:spade: 9:club:

    HERO Calls $20 (Rem. Stack: 2146), BB Checks

    Flop ($80) 5:diamond: T:club: A:heart:
    BB Bets $40 (Rem. Stack: 734), HERO Calls $40 (Rem. Stack: 2106)

    Turn ($160) 5:diamond: T:club: A:heart: A:diamond:
    BB Bets $40 (Rem. Stack: 694), HERO Raises To $100 (Rem. Stack: 2006), BB Calls $60 (Rem. Stack: 634)

    River ($360) 5:diamond: T:club: A:heart: A:diamond: J:club:
    BB Checks, HERO Bets $80 (Rem. Stack: 1926), BB Raises To $634 (allin) (Rem. Stack: 0), HERO Calls $554 (Rem. Stack: 1372)

    BB shows 6:spade: Q:heart:

    HERO wins $1628
  • tripletiretripletire Red Chipper Posts: 229 ✭✭✭
    What were you looking to get called by on the turn is a more important question than what you were or weren't beating before the raise. Is he calling enough worse hands?
  • Joseph FJoseph F Red Chipper Posts: 416 ✭✭
    In this situation? Quite possibly anything. And so he either folds right there and is left with a virtually meaningless stack, or he calls, drawing to virtually no winning odds, and the game ends right there as I just auto shove riv.
  • Ray KRay K Red Chipper Posts: 69 ✭✭
    On turn, what cards did you think he had?
  • tripletiretripletire Red Chipper Posts: 229 ✭✭✭
    Joseph F wrote: »
    In this situation? Quite possibly anything. And so he either folds right there and is left with a virtually meaningless stack, or he calls, drawing to virtually no winning odds, and the game ends right there as I just auto shove riv.

    The thought process here is much too vague, what were you actually looking to get value from on the turn and river? What combos? Why is he calling with anything? What specific reads do you have on him that we can't see in the aftermath?
  • Joseph FJoseph F Red Chipper Posts: 416 ✭✭
    tripletire wrote: »
    Joseph F wrote: »
    In this situation? Quite possibly anything. And so he either folds right there and is left with a virtually meaningless stack, or he calls, drawing to virtually no winning odds, and the game ends right there as I just auto shove riv.

    The thought process here is much too vague, what were you actually looking to get value from on the turn and river? What combos? Why is he calling with anything? What specific reads do you have on him that we can't see in the aftermath?

    I would agree with you that the thought process here is much too vague in a cash game scenario. In a HUSNG? Here - I just want to bounce this guy out and win the SNG. He either has an ace or he doesn't. In any event, with my betting line there, if he doesn't have the ace the game's over.

    Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD & Database

    NL Holdem $20(BB)
    BB ($1500)
    HERO ($1500)

    Dealt to Hero T:heart: 5:heart:

    HERO Raises To $50 (Rem. Stack: 1440), BB Calls $40 (Rem. Stack: 1440)

    Flop ($120) T:spade: A:club: 8:heart:
    BB Checks, HERO Bets $100 (Rem. Stack: 1340), BB Calls $100 (Rem. Stack: 1340)

    Turn ($320) T:spade: A:club: 8:heart: T:diamond:
    BB Checks, HERO Bets $260 (Rem. Stack: 1080), BB Calls $260 (Rem. Stack: 1080)

    River ($840) T:spade: A:club: 8:heart: T:diamond: 3:club:
    BB Checks, HERO Bets $1080 (allin) (Rem. Stack: 0), BB Calls $1080 (allin) (Rem. Stack: 0)

    HERO wins $3000

    River shove: In a cash game, of course I would only be getting called by better (which there's very little of) and the shove wouldn't make sense. Here, villain's clearly not got the nuts nor is he going to let go of his hand. By shoving riv, he's either going to just hit the call button with whatever he has, or he's going to fold and be down 2:1 in chips after one hand. Basically, it's over either way again.
  • tripletiretripletire Red Chipper Posts: 229 ✭✭✭
    You're oversimplifying my friend, you'd do well to see what combos will respond in what way rather than saying "he calls or he folds and either are pretty good since it's a SNG not a cash game"

    Tournaments aren't that simple, you're making a serious mistake by posting this in the first place then not analyzing any part of it
  • Joseph FJoseph F Red Chipper Posts: 416 ✭✭
    tripletire wrote: »
    You're oversimplifying my friend, you'd do well to see what combos will respond in what way rather than saying "he calls or he folds and either are pretty good since it's a SNG not a cash game"

    Tournaments aren't that simple, you're making a serious mistake by posting this in the first place then not analyzing any part of it

    Fair enough. If you think this hand is legitimately worth a breakdown I'll do some work on the numbers with Power Equilab. If I'm oversimplifying, I am and I appreciate you pushing me toward not just breezing past the hand.
  • tripletiretripletire Red Chipper Posts: 229 ✭✭✭
    I'm a little confused still, why did you post the hand if you didn't personally believe it was worth a breakdown? I think it's really important to break down your own thoughts before posting a hand like this, so we can point out potential flaws. That's always been a better way for me to learn rather than trying to employ outside thought processes only.

    No problem man, keep pushing yourself too,. Every decision point in this game has a deep logic behind it, and until we have an intuitive understanding of why all those factors work the way they do, we have to keep studying
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭✭
    Tripletire is correct. If you study sng type format you know each chip has a dollar value and you can apply a lot of the same strategy especially in the early stages.

    With that said your raise on the turn doesn't make sense because you limped pre, you likely don't have an ace. This play is common to those who want to freeze the action on the river and check back rather than face a 3rd barrel. I may do this for value with a hand like KT on T3AA board because its likely he had gut shot, tx, or 3x with his donk bet on this board. I wouldn't raise and plan on stacking off because the board paired so its less likely he has an ace.

    If you think about his calling range on the turn the river J is really bad for you because besides 24 and 45 all high card combos you lose to and all Tx you chop or lose to. I would consider yourself very lucky with this hand.

    As your learning you may want to stick with FR or six max and learn those ranges. HU can seem very fun in the beginning but you have a lot to learn without a lot of coaching or videos available.

    I use to be a member of HUSng.com back in the day (before black Friday) anything $20 and under you can crush for the most part. Most transitioned over to superturbos though. The rake back is worth the 1% roi i guess.

    I prefer six max and fr because of the live cash games i can play as well.

    I would spend some time figuring out what game you want to master and stick to it. You seem to be jumping around much like myself when i first started and get stuck on low stakes forever.

    Why do you play poker? Make a long term plan.
  • Joseph FJoseph F Red Chipper Posts: 416 ✭✭
    Is there really an urgency of picking between two games? I've seen both viewpoints advocated: Some say pick one game and focus on it. Others say it's good to have a backup game. I mean, what cash player never plays in a tournament?

    That said, my experience with strategy is that focusing on one element and putting all resources towards that is usually winning. Jack of all trades types never really compete at the highest levels. As you say, they get stuck on lower levels.

    I did just listen to a podcast by Doug where he stresses not pushing yourself to move up too fast. If you're winning, you're winning and if you don't feel 100% ready to move up, you don't. The thing is that I went up to 5NL on cash games already and am eyeballing 10NL. Just not on WPN :p I don't want to rush things and ruin some nice progress. I'm not really jumping around so much, either as I haven't played any SNG's other than HU and I haven't played any tournaments.

    As for your question: I'm playing poker to get as good at the game as I can so I can ultimately maximize my potential and $$$. I've thought about this before though and I know for sure that I want to play live cash and if I want to focus on HU I'd be spending almost all of my time online. There's probably a lot more money in focusing on the cash game entirely.
  • Joseph FJoseph F Red Chipper Posts: 416 ✭✭
    What about playing HU Cash instead of the HUSNG's? Would that be better if I absolutely insisted on playing 2 games?
  • Joseph FJoseph F Red Chipper Posts: 416 ✭✭
    edited September 14
    I'm doing a bit of looking around here and I definitely have to shitcan the SNG's. Thanks for the nudge. It just doesn't make sense considering my goals, the current environment, as well as my strengths at this point.

    It seems that playing HU cash would be a good compliment to my shorthanded cash game, no?
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭✭
    Joseph F wrote: »
    I'm doing a bit of looking around here and I definitely have to shitcan the SNG's. Thanks for the nudge. It just doesn't make sense considering my goals, the current environment, as well as my strengths at this point.

    It seems that playing HU cash would be a good compliment to my shorthanded cash game, no?

    In terms of building a BR some players start of with SNG cause its easier to build a quick bankroll then transition to cash games. Maybe this was due to rake? Maybe it was due to binking a mtt win and climbing up quickly idk.

    I prefer husng over cash sng. I think more grinders play cash and fish play sng. Also based on the rake at the micros for hu sng might be better. At least more simple as they are basically solved to an extent. Teaches you to play the player.

    If you are rolled for the $5 ones i would start with the $1 hu and do a progressive strategy but of course have a stop loss. Idk the stakes now days $1 hu you lose $2 if you lose $5 then drop back down. Most of the $5s and under will play similar. There are some grinders at 10s 20s and 30s.

    I use to play cash 6 days and sundays were my mtt day. Did well in both overall. Use points to play Sunday million, binked a couple of month 100k vpip free rolls. Its good to mix it up for mental state of mind i guess. Some of the best players in the world are specialist though.
  • Joseph FJoseph F Red Chipper Posts: 416 ✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    Joseph F wrote: »
    I'm doing a bit of looking around here and I definitely have to shitcan the SNG's. Thanks for the nudge. It just doesn't make sense considering my goals, the current environment, as well as my strengths at this point.

    It seems that playing HU cash would be a good compliment to my shorthanded cash game, no?

    In terms of building a BR some players start of with SNG cause its easier to build a quick bankroll then transition to cash games. Maybe this was due to rake? Maybe it was due to binking a mtt win and climbing up quickly idk.

    I prefer husng over cash sng. I think more grinders play cash and fish play sng. Also based on the rake at the micros for hu sng might be better. At least more simple as they are basically solved to an extent. Teaches you to play the player.

    If you are rolled for the $5 ones i would start with the $1 hu and do a progressive strategy but of course have a stop loss. Idk the stakes now days $1 hu you lose $2 if you lose $5 then drop back down. Most of the $5s and under will play similar. There are some grinders at 10s 20s and 30s.

    I use to play cash 6 days and sundays were my mtt day. Did well in both overall. Use points to play Sunday million, binked a couple of month 100k vpip free rolls. Its good to mix it up for mental state of mind i guess. Some of the best players in the world are specialist though.

    If I was to just go the cash game route, what do you think is a better combo: 6max + HU cash or 6max + FR cash? Or, as others have suggested, literally just stick to one variant/table size for right now? I'm grinding bonuses on Ignition and it looks like BetOnline will have a reload bonus next month.
  • tripletiretripletire Red Chipper Posts: 229 ✭✭✭
    There's nothing wrong with getting experience in all of the fields while you figure out where you want to spend most of your time. I'm a tournament player who plays HUSNGS because they put me out of my comfort zone and get me ready for HU spots in MTTs too. I also play cash to build a bankroll since there's more immediate money in it for me a lot of the time. Do what feels right man
  • Joseph FJoseph F Red Chipper Posts: 416 ✭✭
    edited September 14
    tripletire wrote: »
    There's nothing wrong with getting experience in all of the fields while you figure out where you want to spend most of your time. I'm a tournament player who plays HUSNGS because they put me out of my comfort zone and get me ready for HU spots in MTTs too. I also play cash to build a bankroll since there's more immediate money in it for me a lot of the time. Do what feels right man

    Thanks. Austin's right, though. It is time to start focusing on either cash or tournaments and I've made the choice that it's cash. Not a shock, I mean that always was my focus. With the way online is structured, bonuses, traffic, transition to live, etc - Playing cash games is definitely going to be the most profitable and productive route for me. Sitting around playing 4 hours of a HUSNG could be hundreds of profitable hands at cash. There's just no reason to split the bankroll like that.

    I've been playing a lot of cash since last night (when I first read Austin's post about narrowing focus) and playing well. I'm going to start really working on my range vs range intuition, 3betting, etc. As said, I'm eyeballing 10NL on three networks now, and more than holding my own @ WPN 2NL. I just need to keep grinding away and working hard.

    Playing HUSNG's is definitely not going to help my transition to live, either. Obviously, once again, focusing on cash games is the only route that makes sense here. At this point in time, I'm not really an MTT player.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭✭
    Stop eye balling and just do it. Especially if you want bonuses the higher you go the more bonuses you will get. I use to grind 24 tables 25nl fr on stars and earn close to $1500 cash bonus after about a month. That or i buy a bunch of mtt tickets and hopefully boost my bankroll while i was free rolling.

    I would also consider some old advice now that you are more clear headed. Blackrain79 has millions of hands at the micros and highest win rate.
  • Ray KRay K Red Chipper Posts: 69 ✭✭
    I saw that Blackrain79 has a free guide in his blog. anyone tried it?
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭✭
    I bought his package a while back and solid but exploitive style. Can be applied to live games as well at 2\5 and under. Charges the max for big pairs and targets loose players.

    Recently been reading Johnathan little book that came out last month. Also very solid but bet sizing is a little off as he talks a lot about 3x opens, i just feel hes off by 1x. Overall his charts are spot on. Will open up most peoples games. The flaw or downside of it is that he mixes in cash and mtt when your short stack and i feel like those charts for mtt should just be a completely different section and not mixed in with cash games.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, Little is a little suspect on live cash strategy, based on some examination, but i don't want to judge it too much without further review, as he is an "expert" with credentials and such.
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭✭
    Blackrain is basic ABC strategy. Johnathan as he states is based on 2\5 and under but i feel its an overall solid strategy that can be applied much higher level as well.

    When i get to the postflop area and finish ill have a better analysis.