Limping in a live game, you'r opinion

Dor ZDor Z Red Chipper Posts: 8 ✭✭
edited September 16 in General Concepts
Hi guys, I have some questions regarding live low stakes games.
I play for a while now in a live1-2$ table (8 players) that have a rather ‘extreme’ tendency for limping PF. The weird fact is that the table isn’t made from fish’s only, you will defenetley find a raise PF (at least twice in an orbit) and once everey other orbit or so also a 3 bet.\in my point of view I shouldn’t be a limper unless I have a very good reason to do so (such as a great hand in EP and a good amount of certentiy that somone behind me is going to raise).
So my questions are:
1. Is it more often right to limp behind / open limp in those kind of table? If so, what are the different condifions for limping behin / open limping as a generic move?
2. Let’s add some data to the field: the table is rather loose, both passive and aggressive. Meaning I will find a lot of raising after some limpers, and a lot of wild calling to my 5X-8.5X raises / open raises PF. In this condition’ its obviously becoming less attractive to try and punish the limpers. (Unless I’m going for a roughly 10X raise / open raiseor a 15X-17X squeeze, I will rearly get the pot uncontested, and even then, some players will call me a fair chunk of the time with medicore hands). So what do you think is the right way to deal with it? I figured playing simple ABC pre flop poker is the best thing to do, raising for value and iso with my good hands, mostly from position. Sometimes adding limping behind or even open limping when I have enough Implied odds with a decent hand (as high suited connectors).
3. Regarding post flope: this table is’nt consistent here either. Sometimes, some fish’s / ultra aggressive players will chase you no-matter how terrifying the board is, and some other time I will be able to scare away a field of 4/5 other players with a pot size c-bett on the button post flop (with nothing but thin air in my hand). I will add that the players of this table are willing to pay for draws, and willing to bluff (including 3 barrels).
I’ll be more thand glat to here you’r opinion about the right way to handle this table pre flop, mostly regarding medicore hands (e.g K10, 99-jj Q10,J10) in all sort of position, either before the limping had begone, in the middle of it or after it has been limped to me on the button.
Thnks!

Comments

  • Dor ZDor Z Red Chipper Posts: 8 ✭✭
    moldyfish wrote: »
    My thoughts:



    3. I would start by saying, you are going to be in trouble if your plan is to bet air into a 4-5 way pot. Chill on that. Second, reading board textures will be key to understanding why your opponents are continuing. That's probably more the case than them being inconsistent.
    [i]- totally agree, i should add that my image at this table is fairly tight even though i do get caught bluffing at least once every session. in this example i tried to exploit my image, i do think now it was a mistake to bet air into 5 players even though it worked.

    [/i]
    My overall thoughts are, there is a lot you can gain from this forum and this site. You are asking for help understanding a big picture strategy for the game, yet I think there is a lot of conceptual understanding you need more of. Reading board textures, understanding the kind of hands your opponents continue with. Those are the things that will help you win in your game and know what to do with middle strength hands.

    thank you, defenetly will get myself working on those aspects of the game!

  • EazzyEazzy Red Chipper Posts: 595 ✭✭✭
    I will add some of my thoughts to this.

    First...as a new player always raising (if no one else has raised) is going to be a pretty good plan. For one thing it keeps you away from playing too many hands (a big leak and one that its easy to fall into in loose live games). Second it teaches you aggression, and the importance of gaining control.

    Having said that, the process I went through was, always raising, that was replaced by always raising first or second in, and only limping ever, from the cutoof and button (rarely the high jack) . But I only limp with a good reason, and they generally are for the following reasons:

    1) a normal raise (pot size type to 1 1/2 pot ) will often produce multiple callers, thus cause an artificially short stack situation. Here hands like low suited connectors don't play well, but play just fine in limped pots. Note you are not limping only to hit a big hand here, your limping with the plan to use some equity, and position, to steal some pots.

    2) because normal raises will get you bad SPR for your hand type. This generally means broadway type hands (not including AK and AQ) which are difficult to play with spr's of 2 to 5. Here your limping in late seats because you expect to hit ok top pair second pair good kicker type hands, and with good spr and position you can play profitably. (spr's above 5 generally). If players are calling raises with hands you dominate and calling too much post flop, raising may still be correct.

    3) Limp because, your against a calling station or lag tard and normal raises will not isolate him (every one wants to play with these guys), here you are playing bingo poker but with great odds. This has me sometimes limping a hand like J7s on the HJ, planning to pump the money in once you hit big.

    4) Limp because you have control over a couple of your opponents, and know you can take pots away from them. Maybe one or two limpers, have bet tells on the flop or turn, and they bet out, here you can limp any two cards (though its easier with hands that flop some equity) and use your reads to win pots later.

    5) Your in a good game (or one you want to keep playing in for other reasons) and raising preflop too much is not considered good form. I once was invited to a great union game. No rake, players who did not mind loosing a few hundred in this 1-2 game and had no idea what they were doing ,no rake. I was not invited back, because they did not like my type of poker.


    My final thought is, multi way pots are not bingo poker (for the most part). They exist in low stake games, and are very profitable and well worth learning to play because they can be very profitable. But for the most part if reasonable raises will isolate one or two players, or raises get you called by wide ranges (multiple callers) that you hand type plays well against raising is generally better.


  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 762 ✭✭✭
    edited September 16
    Dor Z wrote: »
    2. Let’s add some data to the field: the table is rather loose, both passive and aggressive. Meaning I will find a lot of raising after some limpers, and a lot of wild calling to my 5X-8.5X raises / open raises PF. In this condition’ its obviously becoming less attractive to try and punish the limpers. (Unless I’m going for a roughly 10X raise / open raiseor a 15X-17X squeeze, I will rearly get the pot uncontested, and even then, some players will call me a fair chunk of the time with medicore hands).

    You got the solution. Implement it and punish their weak range.
    For comparison, my regular open bet-sizing at 1/2 is 15$ and my regular bomb to punish the limpers is 40$ (with caution about spr)
  • AustinAustin Red Chipper Posts: 2,603 ✭✭✭✭
    Try and figure out what your trying to accomplish with your raise. It is fine to limp behind with a lot of hands as long as you play well postflop.

    Try and figure out what hands the initial limper is limping with. If its any suited hand, how does he respond to a raise? Does he limp fold or limp call? If he limp calls maybe iso 88+ AJ+ KQ+ and limp behind some hands like KJ, 54s etc.

    If he limp folds figure out what price he does it for..most people will call $10 but fold for $16 so you can develop a range of hands you want value with. Worse hands you don't mind folds so raise it to 16. You don't want them to fold when you have AA so 10-15.

    Research polarizing your range. Works well at these types of tables. Against loose tables you wanna merge your range and not really have any bluffs but wider value range.
  • AcesaladAcesalad Red Chipper Posts: 240 ✭✭
    I play in a very similar game to yours, it's a home game so everyone knows each others tendencies. I use the RCP never limp strategy. I track my results and although it is a relatively small sample of about 100 games I am a winning player. I never open limp, always open raise or call a raise if I am in a hand for the reasons others have already stated in this thread. Out of many of the hands I fold some go 5 way limped with players basically playing bingo. The couple of times I have actually called a limp it doesn't work out, I either miss and fold or like the other day, I hit two pair on the flop and lost a decent pot to a player who hit a set. The thing I have started doing lately is calling with middle and small pocket pairs because if I hit a set I may win a big pot and I am not worried that my opponents will pick up on this and exploit me.
  • moishetreatsmoishetreats Red Chipper Posts: 721 ✭✭✭
    Austin wrote: »
    It is fine to limp behind with a lot of hands as long as you play well postflop.

    IMO, this is the most important line in this entire thread -- and is well understated here.

    Think about: you limp with 7 other players, creating an 8-way pot. You had better DAMNNN strong post-flop to avoid losing your stack (given the inflated SPR), to know when to press, and to know when to let it go. There's much more to it than limping-and-hoping-to-flop-the-nuts.

    Final thought: You're batting ninth in the baseball lineup. All eight players have swung at the first pitch that the pitcher has thrown. You get up to the plate and think, "Well, since all eight batters before swung at the first pitch, then it must be a good idea for me to swing at the first pitch." You'll be out of baseball pretty darn soon. Just because everyone else is limping...