Hand 2

zampana1970zampana1970 Red Chipper Posts: 549 ✭✭✭
I'm going to post up Hand 2. I'm curious how many people are working through these and would love to see different opinions about ranges and combo inclusions. I feel like this is where the art of poker starts to show itself, how we each decide we should be playing these hands. Probably why there is no answer key in the back of the book!

Hand #2

Early position big stack opens 2.7bb and has me (9BB) covered. Everyone folds to me. I'm not doing anything but pushing with this stack. So what would I push with?

Let’s assume big stack V will raise 22+,A2s+,ATo+,A5o-A2o,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,T9s - fairly wide because he is so big relative to everyone else.
Assume he calls all my pushes.
I will push with: (12.4%) 33+,A7s+,A9o+,KQs

Weakest Ax is A7s
Weakest Kx is KQs
Weakest pair are 33

The wider he raises the more we can push, and the more he folds to my push the wider I can push

If we are do stop/go, then I’d say we want to do it with AJ (53%) and 77 (55%) and not the A4s (41%) against his range - but again the wider he goes, the more the A4 becomes playable - against a 36% open from V A4 goes up to 48% equity. Against any two it’s 59%.

So now if we have 15bb and all other factors are equal - i.e.: V still raises 2.7 and calls all my pushes - we push tighter: (9.4%) 55+,AT+. The more BB we have the less pushing risk we want to take. 25BB is about 7.7% of our range we can push. The same stack as EP would be about 3%. 5bb gives us a 38% range to push, which includes big face cards

Against 14bb our weakest A is A9s and no Kx and 55 will be in our 15BB pushing range.

Again all depends on how wide V opens and how much of his range he'll fold to our push.

Comments

  • QuadzillaQuadzilla Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
    Tournament Workbook
    Exercise #2

    Villain’s range is at least 40%: 22+,A2+,K2s+,K8o+,Q7s+,Q8o+,J7s+,J9o+,T6s+,T9o,96s+,84s+,75s+,64s+,54s

    My pushing range is 12%: AA-22,AKo-AJo,KQo,AKs-ATs,KQs-KTs,QJs
    http://www.icmpoker.com/icmcalculator/#CqUP

    My weakest Ax hand: AJo, ATs
    Kx: KQo, KTs
    PP: 22 (though I think in a live situation, it would probably be 66—the coward in me?)

    Since the chip leader is aggressive, the villain is likely opening with a minimum range of 40%. Our hero shares the short stack with a “Super Nit,” so I think the hero should have a slightly wider shoving range, since he’s, essentially, the short stack, and can’t rely on seat 6 busting before him.

    I used ICMIZER to calculate payouts into tournament dollars:
    http://www.icmpoker.com/icmcalculator/#CqUP

    This doesn’t help me with my push/fold decision, so I surfed a bit and basically used the same program but with Nash calculations: ICMIZER 2’S trial version. (This is my first go at trying this kind of software, so I spent a good hour just trying to understand its applications).
    This is what the program suggests: (Note: you have to use Internet Explorer for this program)
    http://www.icmpoker.com/icmizer/#GWBMhc

    So if I’m reading this correctly, it’s suggested shove range for our hero is 18% and the villain calling range is 24%.

    So the lesson for me is that 12% is too nitty, I guess.

    As an aside, I used to be marginal winning tournament player, with abc poker knowledge and using “feel” approach. The last year-and-a-half, I’ve been steadily losing, so I’m looking to expand my knowledge, hence, this book. While I think this kind of purposeful practice is worth the time, it would be helpful—for someone like me who’s new to most of the software—if the authors provided more guidance, especially at the beginning of the workbook, for using x software. At least provide suggestions on what to use: free and purchased software. As is, it’s a bit daunting, but I paid 80 bucks for this book, so I’m resolved to using it.
  • zampana1970zampana1970 Red Chipper Posts: 549 ✭✭✭
    Interesting - we come to some similar conclusions. I didn't have V that wide as he's risking half his stack against the next biggest stacks, so I had him tighter. If you had the big stack would you be opening 40%?

    ie: 44+, A2s+, K2s+, Q4s+, J7s+, T7s+, 97s+, 87s, A3o+, K7o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T9o

    Pretty wide! Makes me think I should go back and play the hand from V's pov in ICMizer... Of course V is only risking 2.7BB, not his whole stack, so I guess he can play much wider...

    Again it all depends on how tight each person will be - the tighter they are the wider you can open.

    I also have had some tournament success in the past, but have started reworking my game, so looking forward to applying what I've learned in coaching using this book.
  • QuadzillaQuadzilla Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
    According to the prompt, the villain is "bullying" the table. Putting him on a range shy of 20% doesn't seem that bullish. Keep in mind two nits and a weak TAG are behind, which suggests that he should open his range, which is why I'm putting him on a range of at least 40%. He could be opening at 50-60%? It depends on how we define "bullying," I guess.

    Would I open at 40%. Probably not, but that's one reason I'm looking at improving my game.

    I'm not sure if I used Icmizer 2 correctly, since it didn't have me input the payout structure, which I thought was a requirement.
  • zampana1970zampana1970 Red Chipper Posts: 549 ✭✭✭
    Yeah I couldn't find that either - it seems like that would be very important!

    I like your thoughts re the wider range. If I were revisiting his hand I would look at it again with those ideas. Nice!
  • Matthew HMatthew H Red Chipper Posts: 2 ✭✭
    Ive been running these handsthrough the Adv Hand Analysis on HRC...
    This is what its come out with...

    Hero @ 9BB
    Using HRC it says if the Villain is playing optimally he would be opening 35.5%, 33+ Ax K2s+ K9o+ K7o-K5o Q4s+ QTo+ J9s+ T9s 76s 65s 54s

    ALL IN
    If this is true we can profitably Go all in with 8.7%, 66+ AJs+ AJo+ KQs QTs+ JTs

    CALL
    It also gives us a huge calling range that is profitable. Although Im not keen on the idea of it. 70.5%, 55-22 ATs-A2s ATo-A2o KJs-K2s K2o+ Q9s-Q2s Q4o+ J9s-J2s J5o+ T2s+ T6o+ 92s+ 95o+ 82s+ 85o+ 72s+ 74o+ 62s+ 64o+ 52s+ 53o+ 42s+ 32s

    Hero @15BB
    Assuming the same opening range for the villain.

    It calculates us with a profitable shoving range of 3.8%, TT+ AQs+ AKo

    Im pretty new to the HRC calculator and could possibly doing it wrong but it seems good to me. I've probably been going all in too wide in these situations and need to tighten up a fair bit more. I also think that not everyone is going to be playing optimally although you could assume he was playing close to optimal?


  • Ben HaylesBen Hayles RCP Coach Posts: 16 ✭✭
    @Quadzilla - just picking up on your point about help with software usage. The 2 obvious choices are HRC or ICMIZER2, though there are more that you could try. I used HRC and that's what I recommend for working through the book. I also put up a free video which should help you - you have to access it by signing up to my website - postfloppoker.
  • BortzorkBortzork Red Chipper Posts: 2 ✭✭
    Ben: I am starting the workbook, have used Flopzilla for years , but, see I need HRC or icmizer to adequately analyze these final table situations. Is the video on your website about how to use these or something else? Enjoyed your first post flop book btw.
  • Ben HaylesBen Hayles RCP Coach Posts: 16 ✭✭
    Bortzork wrote: »
    Ben: I am starting the workbook, have used Flopzilla for years , but, see I need HRC or icmizer to adequately analyze these final table situations. Is the video on your website about how to use these or something else? Enjoyed your first post flop book btw.

    Hi Bortzork - that video from my website will help you, but you'll also want this one: Enjoythe workbook and we all look forward to hearing your thoughts in the forum.
  • Mark FlemingMark Fleming Red Chipper Posts: 76 ✭✭
    Preflop: I go all-in (9 BB) heads-up against a bullying Solid LAg in MP1 (deep-stacked chip leader) who opens for 2.75 BB.

    I put the bully on a 40% range, 22+,A2+,K2s+,K3o+,Q5s+,Q9o+,J8s+,JTo,T9s
    The ICM tells me I shoved with a range of (27.9%) 22+,A2+,K6s+,K9o+,QTs+,QJo,JTs. So all Ax combos, K6s+, K9o+, and all PP.

    In the “stop and go” scenario I’d rather have the AJo (+3.05) than 77 (+2.67) or A4s (+1.40). But I don’t think my call of $275 followed by an all-in of $675 PF will have the intended effect of getting the Solid LAg to fold when he sits on a stack of $7425. I would try this if I had the Broadway end of my range 10% (136) AA-JJ,AKo-AJo,KQo-KJo,QJo,AKs-ATs,KQs-KTs,QJs-QTs,JTs. Solid Lag’s opening raise was weak and I could risk letting him see cards, and lead into me a second time after the flop, if I had premiums in the hole.

    In the alternative scenario where I have 15 BB the "stop and go" would be more likely and I could add a few more combos around the edges of the premiums.

    In the alternative scenario where I have 15 BB the bully is still on his original 40% range and my shove range becomes, according the ICMizer, a little tighter (24.9%) 22+,A2+,K8s+,KTo+,QJs. My weakest combos are A3, K8 and 33.
  • thebmc9thebmc9 Red Chipper Posts: 3 ✭✭
    Posting my hand 2 solution.
    Part 1:
    AA-66,AKo-ATo,AKs-ATs,KQs (Shove range with >60 ev 9.2% 122 combos
    For 9bb I could shove A10o, KQs and lowest pair 66.

    Part 2:
    Regarding stop and go, I would say that I have minimal fold equity, this said I would shove A4 suited with an A or draw on the flop. I would shove 77 if there was only 1 broadway, AJ would be my preferred choice because of the chance of hitting an overpair as well as potential showdown value.

    Part 3:
    (15bb) Slightly expanded shove range.
    AA-55,AKo-ATo,KQo,AKs-A9s,KQs
    Now including A9s, KQoff and PP as low as 55.

    I could have possible done a little more work with V range but gave him raising with around 24% of hands.

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